Episode 55: Sean Escobar, Sexual Abuse Survivor

 

Intro Voices  00:04

Where do I go? It only happened once. I think I was singled out. The phone calls began about one month ago. What is hazing? Something happened to me when I was younger. I'm worried about my safety. He said he was sorry. Can someone help me? Where can I get help? Can someone help me? This is You Matter, a podcast for the NYU community developed by the Department of Public Safety. 

Karen Ortman  00:34

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to You Matter, a podcast created to teach, inspire and motivate members of the NYU community who have been victimized in some form or fashion and to identify resources both on and off campus that can help. I am your host Karen Ortman, Associate Vice President of Campus Safety Operations at the Department of Public Safety, and a retired law enforcement professional. Today I welcome Sean Escobar, Sean was sexually abused as a child by someone who was the pillar of his community. The offender was a respected figure in the Mormon church and a founder of the Sundance Film Festival. Sean was silent about the abuse from 1993 until 2018, when he confronted his abuser. Sean, welcome to You Matter.

 

Sean Escobar  01:27

Thank you, Karen. It's good to be with you. Appreciate it.

 

Intro Voices  01:29

I'm so happy that you're here.  I look forward to our conversation. So, let's get started. Sean, where did you grow up?

 

Sean Escobar  01:39

I grew up in a city, it's in Salt Lake City, Utah. It's called Holladay.

 

Karen Ortman  01:44

Okay. And tell me about your life growing up in Holladay. 

 

Sean Escobar  01:52

Sure. Yeah, normal upbringing. Grew up in a great, great little community that was relatively safe, we would run the neighborhood, you know, as we did back then in the the 80s. I just had very normal upbringing. Early years of childhood I spent all my time outdoors and playing sports and hanging out with buddies all the time and loved, loved loved to be outside all the time, that my thing growing up, mom couldn't get me hardly to come in and take a bath.

 

Karen Ortman  02:32

How important was church?

 

Sean Escobar  02:37

Church? Church was really important to most people, I think church was important to my mom. It was important to some of my siblings, I think most of my siblings, and then you know, for dad and I, church was always kind of a drag. We didn't like putting on the churchy clothes and going and sitting in boring meetings for three hours on Sunday.

 

Karen Ortman  03:02

Got it? You turned 13 in 1993. 

 

Sean Escobar  03:07

Yeah. 

 

Karen Ortman  03:08

And your life was forever changed at that age?

 

Sean Escobar  03:14

Yep, that's correct.

 

Karen Ortman  03:16

What happened?

 

Sean Escobar  03:18

I had two best friends that only lived about three doors down from me on the same street. These were two younger boys. I was the youngest in my family, so I never had younger brothers. They kind of became my younger brothers and I was hanging out at their house, we we had a sleep over, and it was at that time, we were asleep in the basement.  I woke up in the night to their their father abusing me while I was asleep.

 

Karen Ortman  03:54

Was he saying anything to you while this was happening?

 

Sean Escobar  03:59

No, in fact, it was so alarming. I was on a couch,  I was sleeping on a couch and his hand was, you know, he was reaching his hand up and over the armrest of the couch. My head was cocked downward a little bit, so he couldn't see my eyes, but I could see his arm, and his hand was going down my pants and I was frozen for a second there,  not knowing what to do, you know, scared out of my mind and then I just kind of instinctively started to stir like. okay, I'm gonna wake up now. He retreated for a couple minutes. I just layed there, you know, pretending to be asleep still, until he came back again and resumed to do it again.

 

Karen Ortman  04:55

Did he say anything at that time?

 

Sean Escobar  04:58

No, not saying a thing. I think he assumed that I was asleep, and the same thing repeated itself all over again.  I could see a little bit because there was light coming from the TV, the TV was on and there was no sound and it was on like  black and white picture, actually a black and white movie. He did it a third time, and the third time was when I just figured, you know, I've got to do something. I sat up, quickly, I turned and I looked at him. He didn't look at me, he pretended that he was standing there at the back of the room just holding the remote controller and watching this show that had no volume. At that point, I  just made a run for the bathroom. I ran around the couch and went up the stairs into the mid-level and I locked myself in the bathroom.

 

Karen Ortman  06:03

So the third, and this is all in the same night?

 

Sean Escobar  06:10

Yeah,. I mean, I can't recall how long but I think he assumed that I just kept falling back asleep, and then he would come and resume doing what he was doing.

 

Karen Ortman  06:23

So the third time, you said that you stirred and that he was standing in the back of the room holding a remote. At that point, he was no longer touching you. So when you stirred is that when he retreated to the back of the room.

 

Sean Escobar  06:38

The third time he went to go and put his hands in my pants again, at that point, I just sat up, and he just took a step backwards and stood straight up and looked at the TV pretending that he hadn't been doing what he was doing.

 

Karen Ortman  06:56

And where were your friends, his sons?

 

Sean Escobar  07:00

One of them was asleep on the floor, not far from me at all. It was kind of this L shaped setup in the in the basement with couches. One of them was asleep on the other couch and one of them was asleep on the floor right there in the same room

 

Karen Ortman  07:19

When you went into the bathroom, did you see anybody else on that level, that floor?

 

Sean Escobar  07:27

No.  I sincerely don't even know what time of night this would have been. According to my abuser, he had gotten in a horrible fight with his wife and they were talking about divorce. At that point in time, usually he would say that she would be talking them out of divorce, but this time she had said something like, you know, yes I want a divorce. He had said something about,  he got on his knees and said a prayer, he said, oh God not this, and then he proceeded to come downstairs and abused me.

 

Karen Ortman  08:13

And this is information that you learned at a later time.

 

Sean Escobar  08:17

Correct.

 

Karen Ortman  08:18

So prior to learning that information, we were still talking about the night in question where he touched you three times, and after the third time you went and locked herself in the bathroom? How long did you stay in the bathroom?

 

Sean Escobar  08:41

It's always makes me emotional, because I was in there a long time and I couldn't sleep and there was nowhere to go. I just sat on the floor and it was hard, you know, it was cold.  I didn't have a blanket or anything and there was a cat in there. Th cat got locked in the bathroom with me, this big orange cat, I patted that cat all night, but I don't know for sure how long I was in there.  I would guess that it was hours; at least at least five, six hours or more. 

 

Karen Ortman  09:21

At what point did you come out of the bathroom? 

 

Sean Escobar  09:25

Well, he did come to the bathroom door repeatedly trying to coax me out.  I, again, I think that he had assumed that I wasn't aware of what he'd been doing to me. He said, you know, hey, what are you doing in there? I just said I feel sick, and then he'd say, well, okay, come on out. Then I say no, I feel really sick. He did this three, four times, he would wait and then he'd come back again and try to coax me out of that bathroom. Everybody else in the whole house, t's just shut down, everyone's asleep.  I think when he finally realize that I wasn't gonna come out, he didn't come back again. Now, I waited in that bathroom until I could hear commotion in the house, a lot of commotion. There's a lot of kids, you know, they had a lot of children. Once I heard a lot of commotion in the house, I went straight to the kitchen and called my mom, and said, you know, please come and get me now. We had moved by that point, so I wasn't living just a few doors down or I would have made a run for home. 

 

Karen Ortman  10:43

So at one point, you lived close to the abuser? 

 

Sean Escobar  10:47

For years, yeah, for years and years and when I was 10 years old, we moved away. I would still come back and visit my old friends, I just had to wait for my mom to come get me, unfortunately. I just said, mom, please come get me as soon as you can. Fortunately, that morning, he had already gone. I never saw him again. I never saw him that morning.

 

Karen Ortman  11:12

What about his sons, who you were friends with, was there any conversation with them?

 

Sean Escobar  11:18

No, actually, in fact, until September of 2018, I had never spoken to them about this abuse. It was just a sad deal because it pretty much nullified the relationship. I couldn't hang out with them anymore, and these were two of my best friends in the world. It just ended, it just ended there.

 

Karen Ortman  11:47

How did you feel after this happened three times with someone that you knew well, he's the father of your two good friends, and you're 13?

 

Sean Escobar  12:08

Well, I want to specify, he was a different kind of a character. He wasn't around much. I was over there all the time and they were at my house all the time, but he wasn't around much. When he was around, I genuinely don't remember having a meaningful conversation with this man. A lot of people have asked me if grooming took place. and I don't recall any of that. I don't recall ever really having any interaction with this man at all.

 

Karen Ortman  12:38

When you talk about grooming, for listeners who might not know what that means, what does grooming mean to you?

 

Sean Escobar  12:45

Grooming is when a predator will identify someone in particular, they'll try to get close to them, and they'll buy them things, and compliment them, and really try to forge an emotional connection there so that they can play on that. I think that that is very common, grooming, amongst these kinds of sexual abuse Grooming is often the case but in my case, it was not. I was just someone for him to do that to.

 

Karen Ortman  13:21

So this happened in 1993, it wasn't until 2018 that you spoke of this abuse and that was because you confronted your abuser. Tell me about that. How did that even happen? How was that even an option for you to confront him?

 

Sean Escobar  13:54

The way that came to be, I remember, it was around the time that -  I think his name was David Nasser, Dr. Nasser, or something of this nature - he was a gymnast doctor; this was after Sandusky with Penn State, I followed all these cases very closely. My heart always goes out to people that are helpless, and that people would hurt children. When the gymnast thing happened,  I remember having this feeling of you know, who was the brave person? Who was the first brave person who came forward and did the right thing? It was brave and helped all these other people. I remember I had this thought, there's not much I can do about it. I really felt that my religion was, I used to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, they'd always say, you know, well just turn the other cheek and forgive your enemies. It's not it's not your place to judge. I was even told to turn it over to the church, the church will take care of it -  they're inspired. So, I always felt like there's not much I could do about it, because who was I to do something about it. But, when the whole gymnast thing went down, I had this thought, it was haunting me, I thought, do his children know what he did to me? Are they aware so that they can protect their own children, his grandchildren? Is everyone aware is this out in the open so that they can take preventative measures.  I had this thought, well, I'll email his his wife, that's what I'll do, because she's a social worker. I went ahead, she was working at BYU,  which is a Churchill school. I went ahead and I emailed her, I messaged her and I told her. I said, I'm so sorry to bring it up,  I feel horrible - at that moment in time I thought this woman was an angel. I thought she was the best, I mean, my memory of her as a child was that she was just this perfect little angel and one of the kindest people I've ever known. Well, I messaged her and I said, I just need to know, I can't live like this - you know, my daughter's just turned 13  and this is haunting me - I have to know that this is out in the open and that you guys are taking preventative measures with your grandchildren, and that he's never allowed to have sleepovers with these grandchildren, and so on. I sent that, I think that was January of 2018, when I finally mustered up the courage to send that letter, and I didn't get a response, there was no response. I waited six months,  I was always going back and checking my messages to see if she would just give me that assurance,  and I thought well, if she'll give me that assurance, I can put this thing to bed, but I never got the assurance. It was, I want to say probably August of that same year so I guess I waited seven, eight months, whatever, and I just said, enough, I can't live like this. I started contacting every one of his children, his five living children and I just told them what their father had done to me.

 

Karen Ortman  18:00

What they sound like?

 

Sean Escobar  18:04

They were just shocked, they were beside themselves. I think some of them, I mean, all of them were very, very gracious in terms of, oh my god, like, we're so sorry, we had no idea. None of them had any idea and so they were all pretty much up ended by it. A couple in particular were unbelievably supportive. One, in particular, was so supportive that they insisted on meeting with me, you know, ensuring that I was okay. I was concerned for their children. I couldn't believe how...

 

Karen Ortman  18:53

...concerned they were for you.

 

Sean Escobar  18:54

Oh my God, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I could not believe it.  I did meet with one of themand we went through it all. It was that person who had said, I think you need closure. You need to meet with my father. I know my father is a good person. I know that he's going to give you the assurance that this has never ever happened ever again. I know he'll do that for you.

 

Karen Ortman  19:30

And they believed you and your story. And they believed...

 

Sean Escobar  19:36

None of them doubted me. None of them doubted that it had been done to me. None of them thought I was falsely accusing him or anything of that nature.

 

Karen Ortman  19:47

Were you surprised by that?

 

Sean Escobar  19:48

I was surprised by a couple of them. I was confused by, there was one that was very distant and wouldn't wouldn't really talk to me, so I was confused by that. Not that I expected them all to be gracious towards me not at all, but there was one that I really couldn't even speak to, but the others, all the others were very supportive initially. And yeah, that's the way that that all came to be. It was the craziest thing, Karen, because I had never considered meeting with my abuser. I had never even given that, it wouldn't make sense to me, I wouldn't understand the purpose for that. But this one individual was so amazingly, and just said, this could be healing for you, and you know, maybe, maybe my father needs this. Maybe he needs closure. It was just out of the goodness of their heart.

 

Karen Ortman  20:54

Sure. That's tremendous. You don't hear that too often.

 

Sean Escobar  20:58

They believe their dad, you know, they believe when he told them that, yes, this happened, but has never happened again.

 

Karen Ortman  21:07

So they confronted him on your behalf before you had the opportunity to talk to him? That's right.  And he admitted what he had done to you.  That's correct.  And he said that he had never done that to any other child or person...

 

Sean Escobar  21:22

Yeah. ...other than you?  Absolutely. That's correct.

 

Karen Ortman  21:25

So tell me about your meeting with your abuser.

 

Sean Escobar  21:30

I met with him at a mutual location, and my wife was there. She sat in the hall and just, kind of, waited and listened in. I had a list of questions for him in one of those notebooks.  I had a list of questions that I had to ask him, I was so curious, after all these years and I needed to know, what was his motivation? Why would he do that to me, and what would he have done to me if I hadn't run away? And, what would he have done to me if I had come out of the bathroom? And I just, I just...

 

Karen Ortman  22:11

All great questions.

 

Sean Escobar  22:13

I just unloaded on him, because I thought, you know what,  this is my opportunity to really get to the bottom of this.  I did record the conversation, for two reasons 1) I really did think, what if he threatens me in any way, shape or form? I'd like to have record of that, or 2) what if he uses this as an opportunity to, you know, unload his conscience, so to speak, and he tells me about other victims?  I need to have that evidence in the event that he was to spill those beans. So, I recorded it. I just kind of hit him with all kinds of questions and some pretty amazing things did come out from that, like...

 

Karen Ortman  23:07

Wow, did he admit to sexually abusing you?

 

Sean Escobar  23:15

Yeah, right out the gate. He admitted to what he done to me, and he apologized profusely for what he'd done to me. He just kept saying he was so sorry for the pain that he'd caused me and any effect from what he'd done to me, the effects that it had on my life, and he just kept apologizing for that.

 

Karen Ortman  23:36

Did he respond to your questions regarding what would have happened if you didn't stop or stop him?

 

Sean Escobar  23:45

He said he never followed that through in his head. He kept saying he was just trying to make a connection, as he called it. He was talking about his depression and his depression that had continually come on again, and again and again, and that he would try to find this connection through sexual things to take the pain away, as he put it.

 

Karen Ortman  24:18

Did he say what would have happened if you didn't get up and run into the bathroom?

 

Sean Escobar  24:23

No, all he said was that he never followed that through in his head. In fact, it was kind of frustrating because during the time I talked to him, he told me that he did not recall me locking myself in the bathroom. He kind of made it sound as though he had an awareness in the basement of what he was doing to me and he kind of like woke up and thought, oh, my God, what am I doing and he stopped.He made it sound like this was this great awakening for him and he realized the horrible things that he was capable of and it was really important for him to have this awareness moving forward about himself, but he said he didn't remember me going to the bathroom. He actually had gone to the police at the request of his psychologist; legally, I believe, the psychologist had to tell him to go to the police and report this, which he actually did do. In the police report, he talks about me locking myself in the bathroom.

 

Karen Ortman  25:30

And he told you he didn't recall it?

 

Sean Escobar  25:32

Yeah, you know, he's up there in age a little bit. I don't know how old he is now, maybe 70, but it was a little bit frustrating for me to not have him recall the events as they were. These events are ingrained in my brain. They're branded right into my brain.

 

Karen Ortman  25:52

So he reported to the police after you confronted him?

 

Sean Escobar  25:58

No According to the police report, he reported the abuse to the police just, I think, I don't know how soon after the abuse took place back in 1993, but it was pretty soon after that he went reported it.

 

Karen Ortman  26:15

And you were never named in that police report in 1993, as the victim?

 

Sean Escobar  26:22

According to the police report, they had called my mom and dad, or called my father, which my father does not recollect, and asked him, do you want to press charges? According to the police report, my father said no, I do not want to press charges. I  support Sterling in getting help around this. According to my mom and dad, they were - you know, back then in the 1980s the norm was, you turn it over to the church. You don't, my mom and dad reported it to the church, not the police. That's the way things were done back then. You know, in fact, people would say the church is led by God, the law is not led by God, so who do you want to have stewardship over this? You report it to the church.

 

Karen Ortman  27:19

So after the police reached out to your parents, after he reported, and your parents then turned the matter over to the church?

 

Sean Escobar  27:31

No, my parents reported it to the church even before he had gone to the police.

 

Karen Ortman  27:36

How did your parents know about it?

 

Sean Escobar  27:38

Because I told them the next morning.

 

Karen Ortman  27:43

So you told them everything that happened at this sleepover? And what was their response?

 

Sean Escobar  27:50

What happened was my mom picked me up. And we had to take my sister to a orthodontist appointment, and we were passing through a fast food restaurant to get a breakfast sandwich, and my mom placed the order. I was in the backseat, and I told her what had happened. She just turned white. She just said, okay, you got to go to work with me today, I can't take you home. So I went to the office to see my father, it was a family business, and I went to speak with my father and then Sterling, he actually showed up - my abuser - showed up that later that morning. He showed up at the office and I was sitting there at the secretary desk, he walked in. I was there by myself. He just said, where's your mom and dad?  I pointed to the warehouse, then I just ran and went and hid under a desk in the backroom, I hid. He went and, you know, he told my mom and dad and...

 

Karen Ortman  29:08

Told them what?

 

Sean Escobar  29:10

I don't know exact...I mean, what he'd done to me, told them what he'd done.

 

Karen Ortman  29:15

How did you feel when you saw him walk into the office?

 

Sean Escobar  29:18

Oh, my God, I was terrified. I think I was 12 years old, almost 13. It's humiliating to think of me at that age being so afraid. But I was.

 

Karen Ortman  29:38

Did you have any support for you? I mean, for what you experienced?

 

Sean Escobar  29:45

The church never even asked me what had happened. They never got my side of the story. To this day, I don't know what he told them. They never offered me any kind of counseling, therapy, nothing. 

 

Karen Ortman  29:57

I understand that your parents turned the matter over to the church, but what was your parents response to you?

 

Sean Escobar  30:05

I mean, my parents did everything they could to make sure - I mean everything they knew how - to make sure that I was loved. 

 

Karen Ortman  30:11

And they were supportive of you and, and your courage for coming forward? 

 

Sean Escobar  30:16

Oh, yeah, of course. Absolutely. Yeah. In hindsight, do I wish that my mom and dad had pressed charges? Yeah, I do. But, you know, there's a couple things going on there. I understand the relationship to the church, and then there's another thing, back then  victims did not have as much protection in terms of autonomy. They could be drugged through the mud, they were worried about me. They were worried that I'd turn into some drug addict, and endup killing myself, you know, because of all the teasing at school. 

 

Karen Ortman  30:50

And the police were notified shortly after this happened to you. Did any law enforcement officer, did any social service agency reach out to you in an interest of learning your story?

 

Sean Escobar  31:09

No, nothing. I never talked to anybody other than Mom and Dad, I never know, I never talked to anybody about anything.

 

Karen Ortman  31:19

So back to your conversation that you said you recorded and he acknowledged everything that he did to you. Did you ask him about any other crimes that he committed against any other child? Did he acknowledge anything that he may have done to any other child or person?

 

Sean Escobar  31:49

For me,  it was even more important for me to meet with him to try to discover if there were other victims, that was my predominant motivation in meeting with him.  I did not want to meet with him. I only did so because I was just desperate to know.  I always prided myself on doing hard things. I always prided myself on protecting the weak and standing up for what's right.  I always felt like I failed my friends. I failed them. So when I met with him, that was my predominant motivation, I need to know who's out there. I need to make it safe for them to be believed, for them to come forward. I asked him repeatedly. I asked him over and over and over, I said, you're telling me there's no other victims? You've never done this before? You've never done this to anybody else? I just kept saying it and he just kept saying, no, never, not ever.

 

Karen Ortman  33:04

Well, I congratulate you, actually, for having the courage to come forward when you did. Every victim's journey is individual. There is nothing wrong with someone who can come forward the day of the incident, 10 days, two years, five years, 10 years. It's an individual journey. That was yours. I commend you, and particularly as a male victim, having worked these cases for many years in law enforcement, and observing the difficulty with which young boys and men have coming forward regarding these matters. I applaud you, and I am proud of you for doing what you did. I think that you provided a great service to many people out there. So, I thank you.

 

Sean Escobar  34:11

Thank you, Karen. Thank you.

 

Karen Ortman  34:15

So after the conversation with him, did there come a time where you learned that there were in fact, or there was in fact another?

 

Sean Escobar  34:33

Yeah. I think it was about exactly one month after my story was was released to the general public. I got a phone call, it was from one of his own children and they said that, you were right. You were right, there's another victim. I mean, that's all there had to be. I don't know how many other victims this guy hurt, but they're only had to be one more for this to all make sense for me.

 

Karen Ortman  35:19

What did you do with the recording of your meeting with him?

 

Sean Escobar  35:24

Well, through a mutual friend, I was aware of this Truth and Transparency Foundation. What they try to do is to keep religious institutions honest, and people that try to hide sexual abuse in different faiths. I feel like my abuse story was a mess, because he didn't suffer much punishment at all for what he did to me, not really at all. In fact, the church just continued to elevate him and elevate him, and give him really meaningful, prestigious work.

 

Karen Ortman  36:09

And this is even after he they were notified of what he did?

 

Sean Escobar  36:12

Oh they know, they knew, in fact, they used him to create and produce some of their most sacred work. They would actually tell people that this is the most sacred work on earth. And they're using a known pedophile as the main figure to produce that stuff. It didn't sit well with me. In fact, he wouldn't even acknowledge that he did that work.  I asked him, are you responsible for doing these temple endowment videos and this material, he denied it. I knew he'd done it, because I had mutual friends of he and I that that had acknowledged that he'd done it. Come to find out, he did indeed do it and the church just kept using him for that kind of work. It was just wasn't sitting well with me. So, I went to the Truth and Transparency Foundation, this mutual friend, Ryan McKnight, and I said, what can be done here. I don't want it to be me. I don't want people to know it was me that did this, but this, my exact words were, this stinks to high hell and I want something done about it. I need to know if there's other victims out there.

 

Karen Ortman  37:10

And at this point, he's still very active in the church?

 

Sean Escobar  37:41

Yeah, and he was also a professor of film at the University of Utah. His wife was working at Brigham Young University, which was is a church owned school. Ryan listen to the recording and he just said, well, we'll change your voice and we'll redact all names, and let's get this out there. Let's create some transparency around this and let's see if there's other victims out there. Ryan and Ethan, they did an incredible job helping me. It was just all, for all the right reasons. 

 

Karen Ortman  38:23

So other victims? Well, at least one other victim came forward. There was a police investigation and there was an arrest of this offender.

 

Sean Escobar  38:39

That's right.

 

Karen Ortman  38:41

Was there a trial or did the case plead out?

 

Sean Escobar  38:46

He pled guilty and agreed to a lesser sentencing. In fact, I was there when he was sentenced. I was there sitting right next to the the other victim. The judge, it was this moving thing, the judge actually burst into tears and said, I disagree with the sentencing, this should be much longer, and I want the parole board noted that I think this is too lenient, I hope they don't let him out. It's seven years or whatever it was. It was really emotional for me and really emotional for everyone that was related to this case at all. It was just unbelievably emotional.

 

Karen Ortman  39:32

Do you know why the sentence was so light? Do you know what the sentence was?

 

Sean Escobar  39:37

I think it was seven years to life. It could have been congruent, I think they call it, but consecutive. But instead...

 

Karen Ortman  39:48

...because there were two incidents. 

 

Sean Escobar  39:50

That's correct.  And the victim was a female child? That's correct. It was, I want to say it was in 2009 and 2012, there was two different incidents, two different locations. Anyway, he got a lenient sentence, in my opinion. 

 

Karen Ortman  40:21

Was that at the request of the family of the child? 

 

Sean Escobar  40:27

No.

 

Karen Ortman  40:28

No. Okay.

 

Sean Escobar  40:29

Nope. I don't know why. 

 

Karen Ortman  40:32

Okay. So he was sentenced in 2019; six to life. Has he reached out to you since that last conversation that was recorded?

 

Sean Escobar  40:51

No. It was a little odd at the at the end of the sentencing, they cuffed him and he stood, they started to walk him away and he said, I've got one more thing I need to say. The judge granted that, and he thanked me and said, thank you, you've been such a blessing in my life.  I'm still perplexed by what that meant, or why that would be the appropriate time to say that publicly, I don't know.

 

Karen Ortman  41:23

Well, what a service you have provided to victims out there, to all victims, because regardless of gender identity, it's challenging to come forward and speak about these matters to complete strangers. I am very appreciative of the fact that you agreed to speak on this podcast, so I thank you.

 

Sean Escobar  41:56

My pleasure. One of the things I didn't talk about that I'd like to close with is, I can see now looking back, I can see the effect this has had on my life. I can see all the different ways that it affected me from that point forward, and emotionally, and my protective nature, my skeptical nature, my defensive nature, and there's so many ways that I can see now that sexual abuse has this. It's pretty wild, it really colors every page of your life. I just would hope that if anyone was abused, it's hard to know your whole. This world is changing and evolving and becoming far more appreciative of vulnerability. And, for men out there, I have found a tremendous amount of closure, I have found a tremendous amount of strength, and let's call it refinement by bringing this forward, and then turning around and trying to support other people. Not everybody's going to have the opportunity to address their abuser, not everybody has to, but you do need to share with people how this has affected you. You need to be vulnerable in that way and find safe spaces where you can do that, because I never did.  I was this, like steel trap with my emotions.

 

Karen Ortman  43:56

Yeah.

 

Sean Escobar  43:56

And to finally open up and say this hurt me badly, at 40 years old, I finally feel like I'm on the right track emotionally. It's really been a gift.

 

Karen Ortman  44:09

Well, that's wonderful to hear. 

 

Sean Escobar  44:11

Thank you, Karen. 

 

Karen Ortman  44:13

Thank you so much. Thank you to my guest, Sean, and to all of our listeners for joining us for today's episode of You Matter if any information presented was triggering or disturbing, please feel free to contact the Wellness Exchange at 212-443-9999 or NYU's Department of Public Safety and their Victim Services Unit at 212-998-2222. Please share, like, and subscribe to You Matter on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Tune in or Spotify.