Episode 51: Tyler and Laura Perino, Hazing Survivor

Intro Voices  00:04

Where do I go? It only happened once. I think I was singled out. The phone calls began about one month ago. What is hazing? Something happened to me when I was younger. I'm worried about my safety. He said he was sorry. Can someone help me? Where can I get help? Can someone help me? 

This is You Matter, a podcast for the NYU community developed by the Department of Public Safety.

 

Karen Ortman  00:31

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to You Matter, a podcast created to teach, inspire and motivate members of the NYU community who have been victimized in some form or fashion and to identify resources both on and off campus that can help. I am your host Karen Ortman, Associate Vice President of Campus Safety Operations at the Department of Public Safety, and a retired law enforcement professional. Today I welcome Tyler Perino, the survivor of college hazing rituals while a student at Miami University located in Oxford, Ohio. Tyler's here with his mother, Laura, to talk about his experience and to educate others regarding the dangers of hazing, as well as his mission to stop hazing on college campuses. Tyler and Laura, welcome to You Matter.

 

Tyler & Laura Perino  01:24

Thank you.

 

Karen Ortman  01:26

Tyler, where does your story begin?

 

Tyler Perino  01:29

My story begins in the spring of 2019 after I transferred from a small school and Adrian Michigan, where I played baseball, and I didn't really like it there. My girlfriend was attending Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, which she still is, so I transferred there because I was visiting her a lot.  I just liked the campus, it seemed like a pretty cool place to me. And so I ended up transferring there for my second semester of my freshman year, which would have started at the end of January of 2019. Once I got down there, it was pretty good. I felt pretty normal. It was obviously a bigger school than what I was used to. My previous school had barely 1500 kids there. Miami was obviously larger scale, upwards of near 20,000 people. 

 

Karen Ortman  02:36

Okay, that's bigger. Yeah. 

 

Tyler Perino  02:38

Yeah. 

 

Karen Ortman  02:38

So did you know when you were going, when you were transferring to Miami University that you were interested in joining a fraternity?

 

Tyler Perino  02:46

Yeah, I actually had an interest. Even before starting college, I kind of thought about it, because I was the kind of person that liked to do a lot of social events in high school.  I kind of wanted to carry that over into college and basically kind of just explored my options once I got there. 

 

Karen Ortman  03:08

And decided on one. Laura, how did you feel about Tyler wanting to join a fraternity? Did you have any concerns at all?

 

Laura Perino  03:16

I think, you know, just the the obvious concerns you hear, that fraternities are kind of party groups and things like that, and, you know, things that I knew from my college days. There wasn't anything beyond that, that I was concerned about. So, you know, we had those obvious talks with him, and I thought overall, it was probably a good idea, a good way to meet people. He was so heavily involved in sports prior to that, and those are like a club or a group that you could say is similar to like a fraternity where he has friends instantly. So I thought joining a fraternity might be an easy transition for him to join another group, much like he did with sports.

 

Karen Ortman  04:05

Okay, so Tyler, tell me about the process by which you decided on the fraternity that you would end up having the most interest in?

 

Tyler Perino  04:17

Basically, it started off, it was actually the first day when I moved in there. I moved in on Sunday and I remember they had what's called, an informational type night as their rush process for joining a fraternity and sorority in the spring semester. So, it was kind of like an informational meeting the first night I got there. I went with a kid that I met through in a transfer class. We had a meeting that day with my transfer class and I went with the kid that I met there. I went to the meeting with him and they were talking about all these anti hazing policies that they had;  what to do if you are notice signs of hazing or see someone being hazed. All the fraternities had one or two people representing each fraternity there. They would go up to a stage, it was kind of like in a theater type thing, and they would go up and explain what they do, their philanthropy, what kind of service they do, activities that type thing to get you interested...

 

Karen Ortman  05:45

These were the fraternity, I'm sorry, these were their fraternity representatives that were basically trying to sell, I guess, their fraternity to potential candidates in the audience?

 

Tyler Perino  05:55

Yeah, it was basically like the President or Vice President, people in the fraternities that would come up and speak to the potential members. 

 

Karen Ortman  06:07

So, did you decide on which fraternity you were interested in based upon that presentation?

 

Tyler Perino  06:17

Not necessarily, because I still didn't really know much about fraternities, even though that meeting occurred. What I did is, after that meeting, that Monday is what started rush week. Rush week was where fraternities would have open houses. Basically, that's what it sounds like, an open house or  open door, anyone can walk in, and basically tour the house, meet the members of the fraternities, and you could go to whatever one you wanted. The last one I went to was the one I actually joined. We went in and it felt super comfortable; very, very, what seemed like athletic guys, my kind of crew type of thing. They like sports, cared about grades, because they actually asked for my GPA when I walked in.

 

Karen Ortman  07:22

 Wow, okay. 

 

Tyler Perino  07:23

And so I was like, wow, this might be like something for me because I care about academics too. After that, I really liked it. It actually happened later in the week, where I was at my girlfriend's dorm room and I got a phone call from a random number, I think it said Illinois or something like that? I was like, huh, this is kind of weird.  I answered it and it was someone on the phone, I didn't know who it was, and they said, hey, is this Tyler Perino? I said yes. They said, where are you at? We're coming to pick you up. At that moment, it was kind of like...trouble? I didn't really know, what to think?

 

Karen Ortman  08:16

Did you think it had anything to do with the fraternity that you were interested in? 

 

Tyler Perino  08:20

Yeah, because I was expecting a call of some sort, or a text message from one of the fraternities that I went to. 

 

Karen Ortman  08:27

Okay, 

 

Tyler Perino  08:28

Because they said that's what like for their form of communication to us to let us know that we've been accepted into the fraternity. They ended up coming to my girlfriend's dorm and picking me up. And once they did that...

 

Karen Ortman  08:46

Did you have any concerns at that point?

 

Tyler Perino  08:48

At that point, I was actually pretty nervous but I was excited at the same time, I knew that they were coming to get me because they were interested in me. They wouldn't have called me if they didn't want me a part of their fraternity so I was excited because I knew that it could be like a new opportunity and I really enjoyed the fraternity when I went there on open house, but I was also kind of confused and hesitant, because I have heard stories in the past, especially at Miami, from people that went there, that go there that things like this happen, and then they end up taking this the potential members in a car, and I heard a story about someone being dropped off in the woods. I was kind of like nervous at that point. I didn't know what they were going to do with me.

 

Karen Ortman  09:47

When you said things like this happen. You're talking about these random phone calls; I'm going to pick you up, you don't know who the caller is or exactly what's going to happen next. 

 

Tyler Perino  09:59

Right. 

 

Karen Ortman  09:59

Okay, so the phone call was made to you. You were prepared, I guess, to be picked up on in front of your girlfriend's dorm.

 

Tyler Perino  10:10

Yeah.

 

Karen Ortman  10:11

And, were you picked up?

 

Tyler Perino  10:14

Ah, yeah, I was I was picked up by two active members.

 

Karen Ortman  10:18

Did you recognize them when you saw them? 

 

Tyler Perino  10:21

No. 

 

Karen Ortman  10:22

And you never met them before? 

 

Tyler Perino  10:24

Right. 

 

Karen Ortman  10:25

Okay. They picked you up and said what to you?

 

Tyler Perino  10:28

They picked me up and it was kind of weird. They actually didn't say anything. They picked me up, and the whole car ride from that dorm room, we eventually, because I didn't really know where the fraternity houses were at that point, so we were kind of like driving around and I wasn't really familiar with the aea, I mean, it was like my third day there. 

 

Karen Ortman  10:50

Yeah. 

 

Tyler Perino  10:51

So we were driving around and we ended up picking up another kid. It was me and another kid in the backseat and the two active members in the front seat. We were driving around for a little bit, probably five minutes...

 

Karen Ortman  11:03

Did you know that kid? The other kid that they picked up?  No. Never saw him before? 

 

Tyler Perino  11:08

Correct. 

 

Karen Ortman  11:09

Okay.

 

Tyler Perino  11:10

So we were driving and then they gave us blindfolds and told us to blindfold ourselves. So we did that me and the other kid in the back both did that. Then they got out of the car. We were parked and they got out of the car. I remember it being silent and then, all sudden, the active members come back, because I could hear like walking. They came back and I could hear what sounded like bottles clinking around.

 

Karen Ortman  11:42

Mm hmm.

 

Tyler Perino  11:43

So at that point, I was kind of like nervous. I didn't know if they're going to make me drink or whatnot. But then, after that happened, they came back and they told us to remove our blindfolds and we walked into the fraternity house through the back door...

 

Karen Ortman  11:57

Was it dark out or light out? 

 

Tyler Perino  11:59

It was dark.

 

Karen Ortman  12:00

Okay? 

 

Tyler Perino  12:01

It was at night, it was probably like a nine o'clock. Once we walked in the back door of the fraternity house, I walk in and I see a bunch of kids sitting around in chairs and I thought that they were all active members. At first, I was kind of confused. It turns out that they were also potential members. What ended up happening then is we would sit around and would just talk, it was kind of like a laid back environment. We would talk, there were a few active members there, the potential members were there, we were talking, kind of joking around. Then when they would call your name, they would take you to another room in the house. 

 

Karen Ortman  12:46

Mm hmm. 

 

Tyler Perino  12:47

And you would go in there and it'd be super, super dark, pitch black. They would sit you down and then there would be someone on a laptop in front of you. He would say, "are you blah, blah, blah, your first and last name?" And then you would say yes, or no. If  you said yes, they would turn on the lights, and there would be probably about 20 guys in there, and then they would say congratulations, you have received a bid to the fraternity. And they would ask you, do you want to accept it, do you want to reject it, or do you want to sit on it? Sit on it means I'm open to other fraternities. If they offer me a bid, and then accept, obviously, you're in - reject, you're out. So that was that night. I accepted that there. 

 

Karen Ortman  13:42

Okay.

 

Tyler Perino  13:43

So I told them that I wanted to be a part of it. 

 

Karen Ortman  13:49

So then did you leave the fraternity house?

 

Tyler Perino  13:52

Yeah, after that I left.

 

Karen Ortman  13:54

Okay. And how did you leave?

 

Tyler Perino  13:56

I just walked back to my dorm. My dorm wasn't a far walk from the fraternity house, it was about 10 minutes.

 

Karen Ortman  14:04

So, although you didn't know where you were going when you were blindfolded you knew once you were at the fraternity house where you needed to go once you left, 

 

Tyler Perino  14:12

Right.

 

Karen Ortman  14:13

And you were familiar with the area? 

 

Tyler Perino  14:15

Yep. 

 

Karen Ortman  14:18

What month was this?

 

Tyler Perino  14:23

That would have been the first week in February.

 

Karen Ortman  14:25

Okay. So what was the process between February and your date of incident which involves hazing, which is what we are here to talk about today, which I know occurred in March. What happened in between that timeframe?

 

Tyler Perino  14:50

Between that timeframe, it was pretty brutal. Everyone thinks of hazing as just like one incident happened or a few incidents happening, my experience was every day. Every day there was a type of hazing, whether it was verbal, whether it was emotional, whether it was making us do things we didn't want to do; stuff like that physical labor.

 

Karen Ortman  15:22

Let me draw your attention to Saturday, March 16 2019. How did your day begin?

 

Tyler Perino  15:33

My day began, I was at my dorm room. My girlfriend and I were hanging out in my dorm room. I think she spent the night and we were hanging out and talking.  I remember it was like one or two in the afternoon. One of the active members, which we called, pledge masters, he sent us a message in our Group Me group chat that we had. He sent us a message and said, I advise you guys not to do any day drinking.

 

Karen Ortman  16:11

What did that mean to you?

 

Tyler Perino  16:13

That threw off kind of like a lot of panic in my head because the culture down there is obviously a really aggressive drinking culture. It was normal at the university for people to go out Saturday, like late morning, and go to what was called "beat the clock" where you would get a bunch of deals on different drinks and that type of thing. It was normal to do that and they advised us not to do that, for that specific day. So like, all the pledges and I were like, this is kind of weird, we don't know what's gonna happen. We had assumptions that it was going to be the big brother reveal. But we weren't sure.

 

Karen Ortman  17:03

What's the connection between the big brother reveal and the directive not to consume alcohol during the day, not to day drink?

 

Tyler Perino  17:13

Basically, not to day drink was not like not directly telling us but passively telling us that we were going to do a lot of drinking that night.  Is that what happens when the big brother reveal occurs? Yes, at least my experience. My girlfriend and I were talking that evening and I was like, hey, can you come to my dorm later tonight to make sure I'm alright, because I was kind of worried. She said, yeah, blah, blah, blah, and then she went to work. I walked to the fraternity house, which was like a 10 minute walk from my dorm...

 

Karen Ortman  17:53

Where you told to me there at a certain time?

 

Tyler Perino  17:56

Yeah, I was told to be there at seven, between 6:45 and 7. Okay. I walked there, I got there at 6:45pm and I remember walking in and I walked through the back of the fraternity house and I sat down in the same room that I first went in when I was going to receive my bid. So, I walked in there sat down with all the pledges and myself and we were kind of talking about kind of like not talking at the same time, because we were kind of like nervous, didn't know what was happening. And then at that point, a few minutes later, around like seven a few active members, like the pledge masters came in and said, put on your blindfolds. All of us took out blindfolds, put our blindfolds on... 

 

Karen Ortman  18:51

Okay. Let me interrupt you for one second. So you use the word nervous quite a bit. What was there to be nervous about? This is supposed to be a, I would think a pleasant fun experience?

 

Tyler Perino  19:12

Right. I would just say the nervousness came from previous weeks, because previous weeks we did drink a lot and we're forced to drink a lot, and did workouts, and had to wake up early days....

 

Karen Ortman  19:34

Were you concerned for your physical safety?

 

Tyler Perino  19:39

Nah, I would say not necessarily physical safety, it was just the drinking I was worried about, like the force, that type of thing. I wasn't really worried about getting like beaten or assaulted or anything at that point. I was just I was just worried because of previous weeks and the drinking and when they told us not to drink that day, that's what kind of made me pretty nervous.

 

Karen Ortman  20:03

Okay, so you were instructed to put on blindfolds?

 

Tyler Perino  20:07

Correct. We put on blindfolds and then after we did that, I honestly couldn't see in the room. I couldn't see what was happening but I heard what sounded like a loud bang on the table. Then all sudden, really, really loud music started playing that sounded like it was like a few feet from my ears.

 

Karen Ortman  20:30

What was the bang on the table do you think?

 

Tyler Perino  20:34

I want to say it was probably like the speaker they set down or something? They did that and then they started playing really, really loud music and it was like, screamo music like screamo music talking about like, oh, I'm gonna die, like that type of thing. Like, talking about dying, a lot of like, gory type stuff. And while that was happening, there was a lot of yelling, and clapping, and chanting from what sounded like, at first, I saw like, a few active members walk in the door, but it sounded like there was probably like, at least 20 of them in the room at that time. They were kind of like, trying to make us feel intimidated is kind of what I was thinking.

 

Karen Ortman  21:18

Were they calling any of the pledges out by name? Was the communications directed towards you?

 

Tyler Perino  21:26

Yeah, they actually kind of attacked me at that point. Basically, my grades were struggling towards that period, those last few weeks and I had like a 1.8 GPA when I normally have around like a three/five, so I was struggling. I was like, hey, I can't come to this meeting, I can't I can't do these serenades, that type of thing. And they were like, okay, yeah, it didn't seem like it was a problem to them at the time, like, they didn't care because they were all about grades and academics. So, at that time I was like, okay, cool I'm not worried about anything happening to me. But it seemed as if that night on March 16 they singled me out because of it. They said things like, oh, Tyler, you're letting your pledges down, they're carrying you on their backs, they're doing everything for you, they're keeping the pledge class together, you're trying to tear him apart? That type of thing, because I wasn't showing up to some things because of my grades were bad.  Did you respond when they were saying those things to you? 

 

Karen Ortman  22:44

Ah, no, I was kinda like, I was kind of intimidated at that point, because no one else was getting singled out and it was literally just me. I remember I was sitting on the couch and then one of the active members grabbed me by my arm, and kind of picked me up and kind of like, pushed me on the ground. How do you know it was an active member if you were blindfolded?

 

Tyler Perino  23:08

I just I just assumed, I don't see why a pledge brother would throw me on the ground like that. It just seemed like something that they would do just from previous weeks and how they treated us. 

 

Karen Ortman  23:20

Yeah. Okay. 

 

Tyler Perino  23:23

So I was like, thrown on the ground. I was told to start doing what were called in the meow-ups and meow-ups meant basically you would do a push up, but as you were at the end of your push up, you would now like a cat. And while they were doing that, they were pouring beer on me. Someone was like whispering in my ear, doing that type of thing. Someone like spit beer in my face.

 

Karen Ortman  23:54

What are they whispering in your ear?

 

Tyler Perino  23:56

They're whispering things like you're so f'd, that type of thing. The worst is yet to come was said to me multiple times, kind of just basically trying to intimidate me and make me, in a sense, feel bad for not coming to things because of my grades. They grabbed us, like, lined us up and we had like our right hand on each other's shoulders. We were lined up still blindfolded and we were walking and kind of directed and we were taken to I assume the basement of the fraternity house. I remember walking down some stairs.

 

Karen Ortman  24:45

And you were still blindfolded at that point.

 

Tyler Perino  24:47

Yeah. 

 

Karen Ortman  24:48

Okay.

 

Tyler Perino  24:50

I remember walking down some stairs and then, I assume they put us in a circle because when we got down to the basement there was a bunch of active members, it sounded like in front of me. I assumed that we were putting a circle and they were in the middle of kind of like yelling at us, they were yelling and saying the worst is yet to come, the worst is yet to come, that type of thing, intimidating us more and more. And then, at that point, after a minute or two of that, um, I was grabbed by the arm, and I was taken up some stairs.

 

Karen Ortman  25:30

Mm hmm.

 

Tyler Perino  25:30

So I think I was taken up to what was like the room where we had like all of our pictures of our classes, it was kind of more like a professional type room. At that point, I didn't know, but I came to find out that that's where I was.  I remember being taken into the room still blindfolded. I remember someone spun me around and put my hands on the wall. At that point, I kind of sat there, I'm like, I don't know what's gonna happen. This is kind of weird, why are my hands on the wall, why am I facing the wall? And, to the right of me, I hear what sounded like kind of like a clapping noise, if you like, hit your hand between your knees like your inner thighs, um, kind of like a clapping noise, and I was kind of confused. All of a sudden, I hear huge whack and it was like, super, super loud. Then I hear someone start screaming and cussing and agony and pain.

 

Karen Ortman  26:38

Mm hmm.

 

Tyler Perino  26:40

At that point, I got pretty nervous because at that point, I knew what it was. 

 

Karen Ortman  26:45

What was it? 

 

Tyler Perino  26:46

I knew, my assumptions were that someone was being paddled. It turns out that was right. After that happened to the kid to my right. All of a sudden, I feel it between my thighs, the clapping between my thighs. It was it was a few seconds after that, and then I just get whacked, on my behind and it hurt really bad. At that point I had no alcohol in me. It was true, the first one hurts the most because you're not used to it, I guess. The first one, it hurt super bad. I was starting to scream and cuss, I  actually started crying because it hurt that bad. I turned around still with my blindfold on after they hit me and said I don't want to be a part of this shit anymore, I want to leave. And then the room went silent and no one said anything for about 10 seconds. Then someone, I heard what was sounded like giggling and laughing and someone said, the first one hurts the most,  then it doesn't hurt as much and it feels numb after that. So, they told me I'll be fine, that type of thing and I turn around and then I get hit one more time. And then I get spun around after the second hit and then I take my blindfold off. After I take my blindfold off someone comes up to me and hands me a six pack of Smirnoff Ices and introduces me as his big brother. So it was the big, little reveal.

 

Karen Ortman  28:44

Let me ask you something. You take your blindfold off. Do you see the paddle that you were hit with? 

 

Tyler Perino  28:52

No. 

 

Karen Ortman  28:53

You never saw it?

 

Tyler Perino  28:55

Um, it fell basically, I didn't see it at that point but I did end up seeing it later in the night. 

 

Karen Ortman  29:03

What did it look like? 

 

Tyler Perino  29:04

It was, probably, it had like the handle, not like an actual handle but kind of like a thinner version where you can kind of grab onto it. It was almost like kind of like a row, like a small oar type thing, ike a miniature oar. It had the Greek letters on the fraternity on it. It had what were like raised grooves in it. Um, so it was like some parts of the paddle were almost, there was kind of like indentations in it, other parts were raised, obviously they're probably to caused more pain.

 

Karen Ortman  29:47

Were the raised parts of the paddle sharp?

 

Tyler Perino  29:59

It wasn't necessarily sharp. It was kind of like it was kind of like circles raised above it. But the edge of the circles is probably what hurt the most because... Were they flat? Were the tops of the circles flat or was there a point to them? There were there were more flat, but it still seemed kind of weird that those were on there to me. I didn't really know like what the point of it was until I really thought about it more but...

 

Karen Ortman  30:32

And when you were paddled, and when your peers were paddled, or at least the person that was in the room, when you were in the room? Was this on your bare skin or was this over clothing?

 

Tyler Perino  30:46

It was over clothing for the majority of the part of the night, but then I do recall, later in the night where my big brother's something like, hey, do you want to pull your pants down so I can hit you on the bare butt, it's a tradition, most people do it but you don't have to do if you don't want to. At that point, I was severely intoxicated, because I did drink six Smirnoff Ices in a row and I was given a bottle of Crown Royale I was told I had to finish by the end of the night. So I was severely intoxicated and I said, yeah, whatever and I did it. And then he hit me on the bare butt with the paddle.

 

Karen Ortman  31:33

Did you end up with any injuries as a result of being hit by that spiked wooden paddle?

 

Tyler Perino  31:41

Yeah, I had some cuts that were bleeding on my butt. And then I did have severe bruising.

 

Karen Ortman  31:50

How was the interaction with your big brother after the reveal? What role did he play in the events throughout the remainder of that night?

 

Tyler Perino  32:02

Um, the interaction with him was kind of weird at first, because I had never talked to him.

 

Karen Ortman  32:10

Even that night.

 

Tyler Perino  32:11

That night, I did but I never really talked to him before then. What kind of really struck me was the fact that when we first got to the fraternity house around 7pm that day, I remember one of the pledge brothers saying, oh, whoever's this person's big, I mean, little, he hates you already. So at that point, I was like, oh, I hope I'm not his little like, it can't be me. I haven't done anything to him to make them hate me. Come to find out, I was his little, so when I turned around, took my blindfold off and kind of came face to face with them, we already had some bad blood because I was like, oh, how can you say you hate me ifyou've never talked to me?

 

Karen Ortman  33:06

Right? Did you ask him that?

 

Tyler Perino  33:08

No, I didn't at that point. I was kind of, I was still getting over the fact of being paddled. 

 

Karen Ortman  33:15

So how did the night and at the fraternity house for you?

 

Tyler Perino  33:23

Um, basically, that night after being paddled multiple times, after drinking a lot of alcohol, and after smoking some marijuana, the last thing that I remember was me telling my big brother that I wanted to go home. I don't remember anything after that. I want to say it was around 11pm.

 

Karen Ortman  33:54

What was his response?

 

Tyler Perino  33:58

He just he just said, just hang in there. He's like, we'll take you home soon- Blah, blah, blah. And then, he actually took my phone, as soon as I turned around from the paddling my phone was taken, so I had no contact with anyone. He said that he was going to text my girlfriend and make sure that my girlfriend knew that I was okay.

 

Karen Ortman  34:23

And did he do that? 

 

Tyler Perino  34:24

yYah, he did. He did that. But obviously I wasn't okay. Come later in the night. But...

 

Karen Ortman  34:34

What, what happened?

 

Tyler Perino  34:38

I was I don't remember this, but I was taken back to my dorm room I assume by my big brother, but I'm not sure how I got there. I was taken back to my dorm to meet my girlfriend in my dorm room and she was there. I guess she was communicating with my big brother about when she should be there, and when I was going to get there, and basically, my girlfriend told me that he dropped me off. And kinda like, seemed rushed and seemed like he needed to get back to the fraternity house. And so he dropped me off with her and said that I'll be okay, I just need to sleep it off that type of thing. My girlfriend said that I was sitting in my desk chair for a little bit, and she said that she couldn't understand me. But then she said, somehow, I don't even know how I did it, but my bed was raised. She said that I climbed up in bed by myself.  I don't remember that happening. I don't remember anything. She said, I climbed up there and then I was laying face first and my bed and throwing up. She said, she tried pulling me over and changing my clothes and then I told her word for word she said that I said that I felt like I was gonna die. At that point, she was like, I should probably call 911. And she did. Then I was taken out of my dorm in a stretcher and from then I was taken to the hospital and hooked up to an IV. The last thing I remember was leaving the fraternity house don't know how I got back. The next thing I remember, I woke up in the hospital very confused.  Yeah.  Laura, when were you notified that your son was taken from his dorm room by emergency medical personnel.

 

Laura Perino  36:56

His girlfriend contacted me, I was out of town in Cleveland. I had my phone on vibrate so I didn't hear it because I was sleeping in the middle of the night. She had sent me a string of texts. The next morning, I got up, it was probably I don't know, 7/7:30 looked at my phone and there's a string of texts from her. The words that jumped out at me were, you know police, emergency room. So I panicked. I called her, she was with him. I talked to him briefly. He sounded like he was he was still, what seemed to me obvious, that he was intoxicated because, he was kind of slurring his words. I couldn't really understand him very well so I talked to her. And then she asked me or she said to him, do you want me to tell your mom? And I said, tell me what? And he said, okay, and she told me and -  I think this was after the hospital, after he was released from the hospital, because he was released that morning. They proceeded to tell me that he had injuries on his butt, on his buttocks. I asked her to take a picture and send it to me, which she did. It was kind of a blurry, I don't know,  it was hard to make out. She agreed to stay with him that day.  I said, let me know how he's doing. I think sometime later that day, when I talked to him, I told him that he needed to go, because he didn't tell, he told me he didn't tell the hospital, or he couldn't, or I think maybe he wasn't right?

 

Tyler Perino  39:01

Yeah, my girlfriend said that I tried, because she didn't know at the time either, when I was in the hospital that I had injuries on my butt but come to find out that I did. She was able to kind of piece things together the next day and said, it sounded like I was trying to tell the nurses in the hospital but no one could understand me or make out what I was saying.

 

Laura Perino  39:27

Nobody had, you know, laid eyes on him medically, his injuries. So I told him that, what I would like him to do, is to go to the the student health center on campus and get checked. The nurse there took a picture, he sent me the picture. It was horrific. So we dropped everything and went to went to get them. 

 

Karen Ortman  39:55

Okay. You say the photograph was horrific. Can you describe what you saw?

 

Laura Perino  39:59

Bruising, that was very dark bruising, so was like a dark blue and black all over his buttocks, redand inflamed. There were cuts, several like abrasions on, like, towards the center of it. It completely encompassed his buttocks, i wasn't a certain area.

 

Karen Ortman  40:26

How painful was that?

 

Tyler Perino  40:29

Oh, it was probably one of the worst pain I've had.

 

Karen Ortman  40:33

Like on a scale from one to 10, how painful would you say?

 

Tyler Perino  40:37

I would say there's probably a few things that are more painful, but I would say probably eight or nine because it was on my butt, most of the things that I do, um, walking hurt, sitting in a chair hurt, laying down hurt. Sure. Yeah. Um...

 

Karen Ortman  41:00

Did you ever report this to your campus police?

 

Tyler Perino  41:04

Yeah, I ended up doing that, I reported it to the Oxford Police Department when they came down.

 

Laura Perino  41:16

Yeah, we took him to the police station to make a report.

 

Karen Ortman  41:20

So an investigation was done.

 

Tyler Perino  41:23

Yes.

 

Karen Ortman  41:25

And was anyone charged, criminally?

 

Tyler Perino  41:28

Ah, how many people were?

 

Laura Perino  41:32

Several, several people were, eight to 12. I'm trying to...

 

Tyler Perino  41:38

Within the University, there was around 10, but then come criminally, there was, I believe, 18.

 

Karen Ortman  41:47

Well, what happened with the fraternity on campus?

 

Tyler Perino  41:53

It got suspended for 15 years.  So, how do you feel about the sentences that were imposed? Or, the the handling of the case by not only law enforcement, but the university? Was it appropriate from your perspective? I would say that the hearing process that I went through with the university was unfair. Basically, they set it up to have the suspects, more equipped than myself. So basically, they were allowed to have lawyers, they were allowed to have people there with them in the room but I wasn't allowed to have my attorney, so I was by myself. Whereas, the suspects were able to have people with them to discuss with them what they should say. Whereas, for myself I was completely on my own. The University, I feel like, did a pretty good job, they ended up expelling most of the kids, which is what I expected to happen. It is pretty much what anyone would expect to happen after hearing the story.  I think in that sense, that was good, but criminally, is kind of what really angered me. Criminally was the hearings, I had my parents but my attorney was not able to come, he didn't come to that.  I was supposed to have what was called, some person that was there to like...

 

Laura Perino  43:52

Oh,  an advocate.

 

Tyler Perino  43:53

Yeah. 

 

Karen Ortman  43:54

Like a victim witness . Yeah, I was supposed to have a victims advocate and she didn't even show up. All the other kids that were suspects had their lawyers and that type of thing so they were, again, more equipped than I was. What came out of those cases, I think the worst fine someone got, or the worst punishment someone got was people ended up getting 30 days in jail, but that was suspended - every single one of them. The worst fine that someone was given was $250 which is about what a parking ticket is going to be down there. The majority of the kids got like $100 fine, $150 fine, again, same price as a parking ticket. So, it kind of just made me very upset that the judge didn't do more, because I feel like he had a chance to do what I'm doing currently and try and make a change, and try and put this culture to rest. Yeah, This hazing culture.  Yeah. Well, there is clearly inconsistencies across the country and how these cases are handled, which is why I'm very appreciative of you and your mother speaking to me on the podcast to bring awareness to the dangers of hazing,

 

Tyler Perino  45:18

Yeah.

 

Karen Ortman  45:38

I think he has a has a voice that is missing. Quite often, we don't hear about these kinds of cases until somebody has to die. He has a voice of a peer,  that maybe college students might listen. He likes being able to take something like this and turn it into a useful experience, because it even helps him make sense of it all. We were very lucky that it didn't go where it easily could have gone. You know, I  joke, I call his girlfriend my favorite child. I think she earned that.

 

Laura Perino  46:27

Yeah.

 

Karen Ortman  46:28

Yeah.

 

Laura Perino  46:28

Yeah, it was difficult for her, I'm sure, being caught up in in all of that. We were very lucky. 

 

Karen Ortman  46:38

Yes. Is there anything that you would like to add that I've not asked? Tyler or Laura?

 

Laura Perino  46:48

You know, for me, the only thing that resonates is that if Tyler had been walking down the street and somebody had assaulted him in that manner and he was left with the same injuries physically and psychologically, I think it would have been very clear to society that, that's wrong, and it would have been very clear to a court room that it's wrong. It's assault. Assault happens within groups that call themselves families, whether it's your actual family or a made up family, but it can happen anywhere. It's just as devastating.  It wouldn't occur to anybody that's in that situation, as I think most people don't speak, they don't want to speak, there's fear of speaking, there's fear of putting it out there, that the rewards of putting it out there and by taking control of your life back, as I've seen Tyler do, is priceless. That's what I would say,

 

Tyler Perino  48:02

I would, I would just say basically that the culture obviously needs to change from this power hungry type of group that fraternities are. They advertise themselves as brotherhood, service, social life, academics...

 

Karen Ortman  48:32

Philanthropic.

 

Tyler Perino  48:34

Yeah, those type of things. My experience, and I'm sure many other experiences go completely opposite of that direction. I really think that the culture does need to change, I hope by speaking out and realizing what it can do to some people's lives, especially mine, I was fortunate to be living but many people don't, most people don't. I just think that as a society, there's just got to be this change of people realizing how serious it really is, and to change and make punishments harder. To make things more serious. It starts with punishment, making it more serious. Yeah, as universities, you can tell fraternities, oh, you have these guidelines, these type of things you have to do, these things you can't do but in the end, whoever's in the fraternity, whatever culture they bring, whatever demeanor they bring, is what's going to make the fraternity. That starts with things happening like this, or judges such as the one that heard these cases at Butler County. it starts with him making things more serious, making these punishments more harsh so people do not want to do these types of things? So that's kind f my say.

 

Karen Ortman  50:05

Well, thank you again. And thank you for the work that you are doing, Tyler, and we'll continue to do it. I'm certain it's going to make an impact. So thank you to my guests, Tyler and Laura and to all of our listeners for joining us for today's episode of You Matter if any information presented was triggering or disturbing, please feel free to contact the Wellness Exchange at 212-443-9999 or NYU's Department of Public Safety and their Victim Services Unit at 212-998-2222. Please share, like, and subscribe to You Matter on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Tune in or Spotify.