Episode 124: Danielle Elleman and April Fellers, Hosts of the 'Good Sex @ NYU' Podcast

Danielle Elleman, LCSW is the Associate Director of Sexual and Relationship Respect Services at the Student Health Center Counseling and Wellness Services. NYU Students who have experienced sexual misconduct, relationship violence or stalking can seek assistance with safety planning, emotional support, assistance in processing their options and rights, advocacy with systems they are engaged with, as well as, referrals for additional support on and off campus. Sexual and Relationship Respect Services offers workshops, groups and cohost the podcast Good Sex @NYU.

Prior to joining NYU, Danielle worked at Bellevue Hospital Victim Services Program for 13 years where she provided services to those who experienced assault, relationship violence, sexual assault, gunshot wounds, stabbings, and other crimes in urgent and non-urgent situations. Danielle was a Peace Corps volunteer in Uzbekistan and Romania and an AmeriCorps Volunteer in Arizona before attending graduate school at Columbia University to complete her social work education.

April Fellers is a sexual health educator and the Public Health and Campus Outreach Nurse Manager at the NYU Student Health Center. She has 11 years of nursing experience working in emergency departments, as a sexual assault nurse examiner, and now in college health for the last 4+ years. Two of those years were spent co-leading the COVID-19 Prevention & Response Team at NYU. April is part of the “Gender Team”, a multi-disciplinary team of medical and mental health providers who care for transgender and gender diverse students at the Student Health Center. She is also a member of the Clinical Care Committee, a subcommittee of the Board of Directors, at Callen-Lorde, a clinic in NYC that is known to be a global leader in LGBTQ+ healthcare.

April's passion as a nurse is educating and empowering people in the areas of health promotion and disease prevention. In the last several years this passion has shifted specifically to sexual health education. Education expands one’s mind and opens up options and language they might not have known about before. Her professional philosophy is rooted in promoting human dignity and self-determination, specifically sexual and gender self-determination, and knowledge is such an integral part of how one maintains their self-determination. It helps prevent people from being taken advantage of and influenced by outside factors (eg: media, politics, family members, sexual partners).  

Having grown up in Christian circles in the height of "Purity Culture" in the 90s, April believes that her early sexual experiences could have been different if more people had talked to her about sex in an honest, positive, and open way instead of through silence and fear-mongering. She does not want anyone else to experience what she did (or didn’t) growing up; she wants to actively break cycles of guilt and shame and move the next generation in a more sex-positive direction.

In September 2022, April brought all of these personal and professional experiences together when she started co-hosting the podcast Good Sex @NYU. The podcast aims to destigmatize conversations around sex and relationships while providing practical information for the NYU community. The podcast can be found on all major podcast platforms.

Originally a California native, April has spent the last twelve years on the East Coast. But she still misses the warm weather and the beach. When she is not talking about sex, April loves to bake and spend time outside with her husband and their cute chihuahua, Shuri.

Intro Voices  00:04

Where do I go? It only happened was I was singled out. The phone calls began about one month ago. What is hazing? Something happened to me when I was out? I'm worried about my safety. He said he was sorry, can someone help me? Where can I get help? Can someone help me?

 

Karen Ortman  00:30

This is you matter, a podcast for the NYU community developed by the Department of campus safety. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to you matter, a podcast created to teach, inspire and motivate members of the NYU community who have been victimized in some form or fashion and to identify resources both on and off campus that can help. I'm your host Karen Ortman, Associate Vice President of campus safety operations at the Department of campus safety, and a retired law enforcement professional. Today, I welcome Danielle Elleman and April Fellers, the hosts of good sex at NYU, a new podcast intended to destigmatize conversations surrounding sex and lighten the load of shame or embarrassment that can surround this subject. From stories of pleasure to compassionate insights, you'll hear NYU community members discuss how they feel about their sexual journey, helpful information on the stigma around sex, education, and so much more. Danielle and April, welcome to you matter. Thank you, thank you. Let's start by sharing with listeners your backgrounds.

 

Danielle Elleman  01:44

I have been at NYU for two and a half years I started in February of 2020. So right before like three weeks before the pandemic. So I feel like I'm just now starting to get my NYU legs, figuring out where things are and navigating the campus. But before that I was at Bellevue Hospital victim services, and I worked with people who experience sexual and relationship harm as well as assaults, gunshot wounds, all different types of violent crimes, who would come into the emergency room and be you know, in the hospital for various amounts of time, follow up with them provide advocacy therapy, you know, help them with the New York City Office of Victim Services, and so really help a lot of different people in a city hospitals. So...

 

Karen Ortman  02:31

in my previous life, I would have worked with you. I used to run a Special Victims Unit.

 

Danielle Elleman  02:36

Yeah.

 

Karen Ortman  02:37

April, how about you?

 

April Fellers  02:39

Yeah, so I've been at NYU for just over four years. Before that I worked in ers for six and a half years. And I also was a sexual assault nurse for two and a half years during that time in the ER and, you know, kind of all of those experiences combined really led me to wanting to seek a position at a University Health Center. And really, you know, I think I enjoyed the patient education and empowerment piece of my nursing job. And so felt like, you know, college students are coming in first time on their own often, and so really just wanting to kind of be there in that space. And so, you know, I worked in our primary care department, which is like an outpatient clinic for students. I've worked on the COVID-19 prevention Response Team, and now moving towards a role doing public health, and you know, campus outreach, which involves this podcast and involves kind of collaborating with other people around the university to the need services from the health center. And so I'm excited.

 

Karen Ortman  03:38

That's awesome. Tell me about the creation of the podcast. How did it happen?

 

April Fellers  03:45

Well, we thought that this would be a good way of engaging with the students. It came from the idea around, you know, wanting to have more conversations around sex and sex education, myself at our NYU sexual health expert, Elissa FOSS collaborated during the pandemic on a workshop called "Let's talk about sex". And in those, you know, workshops, we were having such great robust conversations that we wanted to, you know, have more of them and have more students be able to engage. And, you know, sometimes we would find that if we had 10 students in the workshop, never many people would actually engage in the conversation. If we had four people it was such a, you know, engage in conversation. And so we wanted to still have those workshops so people can get their answers, answers to their questions and that way, but also wanted people to be able to listen in to some of the things that we were talking about. So that's where the podcast can

 

Karen Ortman  04:43

So you believe there to be an appetite for these conversations.

 

April Fellers  04:48

Yeah, yeah. I feel like, you know, we'd have so many folks that would, oh, I wish I had known about this earlier, or I didn't know that any of these workshops existed. So I feel like there was an appetite for this and sometimes engage, there's so many different things that are available NYU, sometimes it's hard to tune in and join or join a workshop or go to an event. So this was a way that they could engage without having to overly commit to something.

 

Karen Ortman  05:13

Right

 

April Fellers  05:13

Get on the medical side, also just kind of firsthand experience hearing students talk about lack of sex ed in in their K through 12 experience, or just through experience hearing students laugh about a question of when their last period was, or is there any chance you could be pregnant and just kind of people's uncomfortability around those subjects and feeling like this could be a good way to to meet people,

 

Karen Ortman  05:37

Right. How did the two of you come together to join in the creation of your podcast?

 

April Fellers  05:44

Well, Danielle, and I met over the pandemic, we can't remember exactly when. But, you know, I heard about Danielle's position was really interested with my history as a sexual school nurse and just thought, Oh, this is somebody I need to know, at the university. And so I, you know, reached out and we, we met that way. And then it wasn't till much later that, you know, she had kind of already come up with the idea, the podcast, and, and then I got connected, and the opportunity presented itself. And I thought, oh, yeah, this is a great opportunity. And I enjoyed meeting Daniel during the pandemic. And so this would be a great way to get the opportunity to work together

 

Danielle Elleman  06:22

Yeah. And initially, we had thought about having our sex expert join us, but I don't think it worked out for us. And so that's when we were looking for someone else who was also willing to talk about sex in this kind of a forum. And that's when April's name popped in and said, Oh, like we had a great rapport already. So let's bring her in,

 

Karen Ortman  06:38

which definitely helps. I think, actually in a podcast. So you decided that you're going to create this podcast? Tell me about the name?

 

Danielle Elleman  06:51

Well, our workshop was called let's talk about sex. And because that's also a song, we couldn't necessarily use that. But one of the things that we would talk about in the workshop would be like, well, we want people to have good sex. Right? Like, what do we need to get to good sex? And so it just kept being a theme that we would say in the workshop, like we would often April and I often say this in our podcast as well, that sometimes we have to have an awkward conversation to get to good sex. And so because of, you know, like just the tagline that we already say. And so that's how we decided on a name.

 

Karen Ortman  07:25

As soon as you heard it, did you did you instantly know, that's it?

 

Danielle Elleman  07:29

Yeah. It was like it has to be good funny with that word.

 

Karen Ortman  07:33

There are 1000s of podcasts out there, as I'm sure you're both aware. How, and I'm sure there are 1000s on this subject, actually. How do you make yours unique?

 

April Fellers  07:45

Yeah, I think all of our, you know, we're doing sort of half and half, half of our episodes are interviews, and half of them are what we're calling quickies that are shorter topic based. And all of our interviews are NYU community members.

 

Karen Ortman  08:02

I like that.

 

April Fellers  08:02

Yeah. That was also also me. And instantly, yes. So all of our interviews are with NYU community members, students, staff, faculty, administrators. And you know, I think that, well, the whole NYU community is large, I think it's, it's nice to know that oh, this person is kind of going through some similar experiences, they have a location similarity, they have a understanding of the university. And, you know, we ask every buddy that we interview, what's one thing you enjoy about the NYU community and so just kind of really our differences that we're focusing with an NYU lens, and you know, even some of our quickies. We talk about NYU specific resources and things that people in the community can engage with. So, you know, bringing, like Daniel said, you know, some people didn't know about the let's talk about sex workshop. And so we're kind of trying to highlight different things that are available at the university so that people are more aware of what is available to them. So that's, that's kind of our lens like we are. And we do link to other podcasts, because we do recognize that there are a lot of great podcasts out there already with this topic. So we link to those as much as we can.

 

Karen Ortman  09:16

Your guests are NYU affiliated. How do you intend to cater to those listeners who might not be part of the NYU community but may listen anyway?

 

April Fellers  09:30

Yeah, I think one of the things that we try to do is name Hey, this is an NYU resource. But hey, here's some other resources outside of NYU. So when we're talking about certain resources and ways to access things, we want, not only NYU folks to know where to go, but other folks too. But I think also sometimes people who go to NYU don't necessarily want to engage in services at NYU. So I think that can also be really helpful to have a multitude of different options. So whatever works for you, is going to be the right thing to get to connect to right so I think And, you know, that's one thing in which we also have a bunch of show notes that we hope people will access. I don't know how many people do, but we provide a lot of different articles and resources that are both on campus and off campus.

 

Karen Ortman  10:13

What is your desired outcome for each episode?

 

April Fellers  10:19

I want people to feel like they're not alone. And that even if the person like it fits an interview, even if that person is somebody that doesn't share a single identity with a listener, that they are able to still find something that resonates with them, to feel like, Oh, me, too, that that resonates with me that that feels very familiar. And so a to see that, you know, even people that are very different than you are very, can be similar, but also that, you know, nobody should ever feel alone, and that there are other people out there experiencing what they're experiencing. And yeah, and that, that there are other places that they can get connected, you know, through through those other resources that we're we're talking about as well. So really just helping people get information and feel less alone.

 

Danielle Elleman  11:09

And I think I'll just add, you know, one thing, because I think all of that stuff is really amazing. My specific desire is also to shift how we think about some of these topics as well, I think there's a lot of negative norms around pleasure and sex. And it inhibits our ability to talk about some of these things. And so we might be talking about masturbation one day and talking about how, you know, different institutions will like sort of think about masturbation, we might also be talking about how, you know, norms impact our ability to talk and communicate how it affects us internally, right. So really sort of thinking about this in various different levels of oppression. And how we can shift those narratives maybe just slightly, I think it's kind of a lofty goal to want people to like, you know, sort of move their their ideas and change how we think about this topics. But I want to have some big goals, and I want to have some realistic goals as well.

 

Karen Ortman  12:03

So we've already established that you focus primarily on NYU affiliated guests. Do you ever intend to broaden that scope outside of NYU?

 

April Fellers  12:18

At this point, I don't think that we are, but that doesn't mean we want to shut that off completely. There might be an opportunity where we can't find an expert in a certain area, or maybe there just happens to be someone really amazing that you know, wants to come on. So we don't want to say no, but I think because there are like you mentioned before 1000s and 1000s of podcast. And because there are so many that are focused on, you know, sex and relationships, that being NYU focused is how we're sort of setting ourselves apart,

 

Karen Ortman  12:46

understood? How do you find your guests?

 

April Fellers  12:50

A lot of word of mouth? You know, I think when I was starting this journey of how to develop a podcast, I spoke with you, I spoke with a number of other different people across campus that I'd already either heard of, or had some type of relationship with, and I let them know, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this, like, what are your thoughts? How can we get you involved and have been able to make connections that way, we have some really great partners and key champions in different schools. So we've really been lucky in, you know, people being excited about this. And also, we have a couple of really, you know, great interns that are working with health promotions office, that has helped us get connected to some of our student interviews, right, because we are also interviewing students, and so we don't necessarily have the capacity to, to recruit students. And so them going out sort of talking to their friends, talking to student leaders has been helpful in getting students to participate.

 

Karen Ortman  13:42

And so I'm sorry,

 

April Fellers  13:44

I'm just gonna say as, as the podcast has started to air, we now have gotten several emails as well from people that are they're interested and really excited about what we're doing. And you know, so I think as, as we continue to record, if we get picked up for more seasons, you know, that we're able to continue, I think that that will also be a valuable resource of of people reaching out and saying that they also want to have these conversations, because I think that that's a big piece of it is people feeling comfortable having these conversations. So, you know, we obviously want to be mindful of the different identities that we have represented. We don't want to over represent certain voices. But I think that definitely people reaching out and being interested to be interviewed is definitely a plus

 

Karen Ortman  14:26

what constitutes a good interview?

 

April Fellers  14:31

I think a certain level of vulnerability. You know, it's a topic that has a taboo, like a certain stigma at times. And so when someone is willing to really share personal information, again, we don't ask, tell us about your kinks, or we don't we don't make people go into detail. We never make anyone do anything like we want people if there's a boundary that doesn't feel good for them. We want them to just share that, hey, this is something I'm not quite wanting to have, you know, recorded and have all my people here. Yeah. You know, like we want to be respectful of that. But also there's a certain level of vulnerability within a, an interview that makes it just easy.

 

Karen Ortman  15:11

Yeah. And I would say, I'll add my two cents. I'm really listening to what the guest is speaking about.

 

April Fellers  15:22

Yeah, I think that's true. Because like we have a set of questions that we go through. But if we were to just go straight through and listen to their answer, and in not responded any way or ask any follow up questions, then that's, that's kind of boring.

 

Karen Ortman  15:35

I'll probably be redundant. Yeah. Because yeah, oftentimes, guests will will share information that you intended to ask, but now you don't need to ask because they've already shared it. Right. Yeah. Let's talk about some of the episodes that you've already published. And the ones that are forthcoming, what can you highlight? For my listeners? So let's start with how many episodes you have published to date?

 

April Fellers  16:01

It's a great question. I'm gonna say around 20. We have some great interviews with a bunch of different like professors and students that I'm really excited about. But I think some of the ones that I'm looking forward to that haven't that will air will be things like, masturbation. I think I talked a little bit about that one already. Also, BDSM

 

Karen Ortman  16:29

BDSM is what? Oh,

 

April Fellers  16:31

that's a great question. Bondage and discipline, dominance and submission, sadism, and masochism. Thank you. Ones that are that are already released. STI and masturbation. Right? STIs STI is good question sexually transmitted infection. Okay, so that's kind of a breakdown of of all of the different kinds of STIs. And that one specifically has some information about services available at NYU. Yeah, and masturbation, healthy relationships, sexual communication, all those things that are kind of the foundation of good sex and good relationships.

 

Karen Ortman  17:07

If a listener is NYU affiliated, and is interested in participating in your podcast, how would they contact you?

 

April Fellers  17:17

They can reach out to us through our email is goodsex.podcast@nyu.edu. We also have a website that they can connect with. It's linked to all of our podcast in the notes. So we have some some good resources on on the website. Okay. And we're partnering with the health promotions team, and their Instagram is Hello, underscore HPO.

 

Karen Ortman  17:40

Okay. Bye back to your podcast. Let's talk about the format. What is the format?

 

April Fellers  17:49

So we, like I mentioned earlier, we have half episodes, our interviews and in the interviews, we have a set of questions that we go off of to the kind of base the structure of the interview. But then obviously, if somebody says something interesting, or that we want to know more about then we ask follow up questions. And we definitely we try to make it an equitable space. And so we always tell every interviewee that they can turn questions back around on us, or they could ask us different questions.

 

Karen Ortman  18:23

Yeah, I don't I don't offer that.

 

April Fellers  18:25

But you know, didn't when they're so comfortable talking about sex and these topics, and so we just say if you want to know the answer, and so you know, people have asked us about, it's so vulnerable, what they're sharing, right? So like, we don't want them just to be in a space, I'm being so vulnerable. We also want to be vulnerable. I think that's like when I was talking about a good interview. It's the vulnerability of the interviewee, but also our own. Yeah, our willingness to be vulnerable to write. And then we have the topic based episodes that are that are shorter than the interviews. And those are, we kind of have both a mental health and medical perspective kind of bringing into these topics. And it's it's a conversation between April and I, us bringing our medical perspective and mental health perspective together to tackle a subject matter that, you know, we have a little bit of knowledge and experience about

 

Karen Ortman  19:15

how do you prepare for your interviews? Do you do you talk about them beforehand? Do you? Or do you just go into it and do it? Like I do?

 

April Fellers  19:29

I feel like one of the things about having a structured set of interview questions is that like, we kind of know what questions we're going to ask. But one of the things that people I think have found over the course of doing this is that we sometimes really benefit from having a conversation with our interviewees beforehand. So just to be able to talk them, talk to them about like, you know what to expect and you know, what their sort of anticipate, you know, we really want to help create this like safe space and it can be helpful rest just to have a quick like, you know, 30 minutes zoom with somebody in advance, that doesn't always happen. And so we might spend a little bit of time beforehand, just getting to know someone, because again, you're going to be vulnerable in a space, talking about a subject that has some taboos around it. So we want to like get to know you a little bit and then maybe go into some of the more, you know, questions that can be challenging for the quickies? We do, there are some structure for our quickies. Because you know, the subject matter is sometimes a little difficult for listeners or the language is really important. And we want to make sure that we're saying the right thing and not saying anything that is troublesome to listeners, you know, I think that we sometimes think through the language of the quickies a little bit ahead of time, obviously, we do kind of go off on tangents and riffs here and there. But I think some of it just being such a sensitive subject, we want to make sure that we're not, we're not upsetting anybody that's listening. Well, some of its medical information. And I mean, APR does a really good job of just knowing that, but we want to make sure like it's, you know, the most up to date. I will also quote some statistics in there. And so like you might hear some of those things that we've definitely prepared for.

 

Karen Ortman  21:14

So as a interviewer, I'm compelled to ask you to turn the tables, as much as I don't want to participate in this because I'm used to asking the questions, not being asked questions. But if, if I were a guest of yours, what are some questions you would ask me? And I don't know that I'm going to answer but you can ask me.

 

April Fellers  21:43

Well, those are just good boundaries that you'll be modeling if you decide that's right. We want to make this an equitable space. Who was your first crush? It could be a real person could be literary or musician and maybe an actor you can share names or doubt.

 

Karen Ortman  21:59

Yeah, you know, it's funny. I did have crushes when I was younger, on on celebrities like I'm really telling my age here. But did you ever hear the show The Rockford Files? Janet your you never did. James Garner was was Jim Rockford I had a crush on him. But I also had like girl crushes. And they were women that I admired that when I thought of myself as an adult, I thought I wanted to be like them. Cher’s one of them. Marlo Thomas in That Girl. It was like one of the first I think sitcoms where a woman lived alone. I'd love to I still have all those shows on on DVD. Davy Jones, of course, the monkeys.

 

April Fellers  22:49

I think that's important to kind of differentiate like, you know, sometimes people might think it just we're just talking romantic crushes. But I think emotional crushes and yeah, and I think that's that's a good point, too. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. What were the dominant messages you grew up with about sex and relationships,

 

Karen Ortman  23:08

my parents were very afraid to let it be known that they were having sex. And we hated it. We hated that. They were so open about it. And and they're, you know, there were boundaries established, you could stay in there. And we knew what they were doing. And it was just mortified. So those are my first memories are recollection of, of the messaging surrounding sex as a

 

April Fellers  23:41

child. So pretty positive.

 

Karen Ortman  23:43

Yeah, it was. But it was it was positive that it was embarrassing. You know?

 

April Fellers  23:51

And so one of the things that we always do at the end of our interview is we asked folks, what does good sex mean to you?

 

Karen Ortman  24:04

That's an easy one. Establishing an emotional connection is imperative. So, you know, you think of, of people who maybe don't have that, and it's just the act itself. No judgment, do your thing. But, but for me, it's having an emotional connection. Yeah. That's great. Great. Thank you. I feel like maybe say that pass. Yeah.

 

April Fellers  24:34

Someday, you might need to come and answer the rest.

 

Karen Ortman  24:39

Well, that was not fun, but it wasn't terrible. So where do you see your podcast in five years? Do you see yourself doing this in five years?

 

April Fellers  24:49

I mean, I hope so. I hope that it continues for the next five years. I want to keep pushing the boundaries of what kind of no arm as we can shift, right? Like, you know, I want to key I mean, in five years, students are still going to be and people are still going to be, you know, needing to find belonging and meaning to find connection and, you know, through pleasure and through sex like that's like a commonality that we can share, right? Like a lot. I mean, the vast majority of us want to find pleasure, right, right. And so if we can connect on that way, then like, we can find belonging. And again, like April said before, like, you might think we have nothing in common. I'm not gonna connect with you at all. But like, I always find some kind of connection with every single person we've interviewed. And so I think we want to just keep finding that connection and to build a community. So folks know that they're not alone, that their sexual journeys are normal. And I don't think that the sex ed in this country is going to be fixed in five years. That's so there will still be a need to have these conversations and continue to make sure that everybody's getting the most up to date, information that they can you know, because well, while education may not catch up in five years, I think just thinking about how far we've come in just thinking about gender expansive people in the last five years, and just how much more there is available at the Student Health Center. And like just thinking about what that means five years from now, what else are we going to see, expand and grow that education hasn't caught up with that we're going to still be talking about?

 

Karen Ortman  26:25

Definitely a stigmatized subject. And I think the work that you're doing is wonderful. And I hope that you are here in five years and beyond. Because I think it's really important information that you're sharing. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like to share?

 

April Fellers  26:42

Since we are focusing on NYU community and really wanting to, to bring to light some of the resources that people might not know about? I think Daniel mentioned earlier, our NYU sexpert, she is available for any questions people may have whether or not they think it's embarrassing, and they don't want to talk to anybody else about it. She's available by email, she's available for one on one consultations. That email address is sexpert sex, P e, r t@nyu.edu. And then you can also schedule appointments with her through the NYU Student Health Center portal. And that's also where you can make any appointments for if you're having any medical concerns, and want to talk to a healthcare provider about anything sexually health related medically, through the Student Health Center portal. Yeah, and I'll just share that my program, the sexual and relationship respect Services provides a number of different services. For people who have experienced some kind of harm, are questioning whether or not it was harmful or traumatizing, they need to process something, then you can definitely also reach out to a wellness exchange, if there's anything urgent, of course, if there's any safety or mental health concerns, but you can also reach out to them to get an appointment with me or someone on my team to process a relationship that maybe might be on the unhealthy side, or you're not quite sure. Or if you just had a really bad, you know, date experience that maybe some boundaries were crossed, and you want to process that one time. Maybe you want some short term therapy, or even some referrals for off campus long term therapy. And I also want to share that like April and I are doing the let's talk about sex workshop. We'll be doing it in the spring. So you can outreach to counseling and wellness services at 212-998-4780. And sign up for that workshop. There's a number of other amazing workshops that counseling wellness services also offers. I do one called navigating healthy dating relationships, and improv your stress. So there's a bunch of different options. And so if there's anything that you know, any topic or anything that you're struggling with, there's probably a workshop for that.

 

Karen Ortman  28:56

And rumor has it you're a comedian.

 

April Fellers  28:59

I have done some stand up comedy. Yes. It's been a while. So I wouldn't I wouldn't say that. I'm a stand up comedian. I've done some stand up yet.

 

Karen Ortman  29:07

I'm impressed. Well, you're doing amazing work. I'm really proud that you're part of NYU and I'm proud to share this information with my listeners. So thank you so

 

April Fellers  29:19

much for having us here. But also I just want to on a personal note, thank you for the support when I was beginning to develop this podcast like you were there any questions I had any like you got us connected to a great studio, you were really helpful in you know, bringing it all together. So I really appreciate how you've been involved as well. My pleasure.

 

Karen Ortman  29:39

Very happy for the both of you. Thank you to my guests Danielle and April and to all of our listeners for joining us for today's episode of You matter if any information presented was triggering or disturbing. Please feel free to contact the wellness exchange at 212-443-9999 or NYU’s Department of campus safety and their victim services. Unit at 212-998-2222. Please share like and subscribe to you matter on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or Tune In