Conversations Podcast

Hosted by NYU President
Andy Hamilton

In these Conversations, President Andy Hamilton interviews NYU faculty, students, and alumni who are using their intellectual gifts, determination, and creativity to make a profound difference in our world. With each guest, he pulls back the curtain to learn the origins of their inspiration, the current focus of their work, and their vision for the future.

Kim Wyant, head coach of the NYU men's soccer team, is a groundbreaking athlete and coach. When she was appointed to this role in 2015, she was the only woman coaching an NCAA men's soccer team. In fall 2022, she gained wide publicity for a historic matchup against Julianne Sitch—the new coach for the UChicago men's team. The two teams played to a draw, and Chicago went on to win the NCAA Div III national championship.

In addition to her years of success as a coach for numerous teams, Wyant was also a highly accomplished player. She was a starter for the University of Central Florida in the first-ever NCAA Women's National Championship Game (1982), and was named MVP of that tournament. She was named first team All-American as a college senior.

Wyant played goalkeeper for the first United States Women's National Team in their inaugural international game against Italy in 1985. In 2008, Wyant received the Special Recognition Award from the National Soccer Hall of Fame for her contributions to the National Team.

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

PA System: [00:00:02] This is West 8th Street, New York University.

Announcer: [00:00:14] From New York University, You're listening to conversations hosted by President Andy Hamilton. In each episode, Andy talks insight, inquiry and imagination with a leading mind from the NYU community.

President Hamilton [00:00:33] Hello, everyone. Today we welcome Kim Wyant to the podcast. Kim is the head coach of NYU's men's soccer team and one of the first women to coach men's soccer at the collegiate level. We are incredibly proud of her and the success of our athletic teams across the board, but especially our soccer teams. Now, Coach Wyant is also a highly accomplished athlete in her own right. She played goalkeeper on the US women's national team and earned first Team all-American honors while playing for the University of Central Florida. And recently, she gained wide publicity for an historic match up between NYU men's soccer team against the men's soccer team of the University of Chicago. It was a game that ended in a draw, but it marked the first time that two women coaches had squared off as the leaders of men's soccer teams at the collegiate level. We are thrilled that NYU yet again is at the forefront and first in achieving important things. And we are very proud of Coach Wyant and everything she has done. So, Kim, Welcome.

Coach Wyant [00:02:06] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

President Hamilton [00:02:08] Well, we're going to get on in a few moments to all of the great things going on in NYU soccer and the men's and women's soccer teams. But before that, having such an accomplished soccer coach and soccer player, I should say here, am I using the word soccer, Of course, for me it should be football. Even though the word soccer comes from association football, not many people know that, from the shortening of the word association, which was the full name of soccer football when it was first created. And so but of course, as many listening to the podcast will know, we have just finished an incredibly exciting men's World Cup. And I wanted to get your thoughts, Kim, on not just the World Cup in its entirety. I have to confess I still haven't quite got over England's loss to France in the quarter finals, but that amazing final between France and Argentina and I think it had many of us bouncing out of our chairs. Give me your thoughts on that final and the World Cup in general.

Coach Wyant [00:03:22] Well, my thoughts on the World Cup is I was following the U.S. team very closely and I was very, very pleased with the players that I saw play and the type of football that we put forth. We gave England a game, could've come out on the positive end of that match as well. So I was I was very happy to to see their their success. And, you know, the the final the final I was falling asleep on my couch because France didn't seem to show up to play for the first 70 minutes. And I was really quite surprised by that. I was really quite surprised by that. But I actually thought up until the 70th minute that Argentina had this in the bag, like there there was just no fight in France whatsoever. But then all of a sudden, you know, Mbappe decides to put his team on his back. That scores two goals within 3 minutes of each other. And now it was game on and the final couldn't have been any more dramatic from that point on. Messi's third goal was when I jumped off the couch at that point, because he finds himself in the right place at the right time and he score is what I think and probably what a lot of people thought was the winning goal. It couldn't have scripted any better for this great player, Messi. But then again Mbappe answers and scores a hat trick. He scores a hat trick in the World Cup final. And how do you lose when you score a hat trick? It's amazing.

President Hamilton [00:05:16] Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Wyant [00:05:17] I was very happy for Messi. I thought the two of them were like, Truly, they're truly great players and they really, really put on a show for the world.

President Hamilton [00:05:30] I agree with you. It was great. Messi is such a brilliant player too, to have now a World Cup victory among his achievements, I think I think meant a lot to many people. And just I'm glad you mentioned the England US game because as a proud dual citizen, a proud British American, a draw was the perfect result for me. (laughing) I'd love to get on to to our own athletes, NYU's scholar athletes here in New York City. You've been coaching the men's soccer team at NYU since 2015, and you've been a highly effective leader guiding your players towards excellence both on and off the field. And now I'd love to hear as you began that role in 2015. Now, what were your goals for the team as you started that head coaching position and how did you then set out over the subsequent what is now seven heading towards eight years to accomplish them?

Coach Wyant [00:06:44] You know, my goals are very, very simple. When I took over the program in earnest, what I did was I evaluated where the team had been. I looked at the history of the program of NYU. I evaluated the NYU academic part of this as well as well as New York City. And I just knew that we were bound for great things. It's a wonderful institution to come and get your education, and it's in the greatest city in the world. We play in the best conference, I think, for for men's and women's soccer with this ability to be able to travel, take airplane flights, to go play a game, which is more like a Division one model. And so my my goals were fairly simple when I started, kind of like short range goals, mid term goals and long term goals. And so in the short run, we just set about laying a foundation and the culture that I think that's important for success. And the three pillars that we rest our program on are compete, respect and elevate. And so we started to introduce those concepts of competing, of respecting, of elevating. We could spend this whole podcast just talking about those three pillars and what they mean. Right. But pretty self-explanatory.

President Hamilton [00:08:21] Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Wyant [00:08:21] And the next step was really leaving no stone unturned when it came to recruiting the type of athletes that I thought could meet those standards that we were looking for. And so with the support of NYU and the athletic department, I, my assistant, we went all over the country recruiting players and really working very hard to bring in what would have been my first recruiting class in 2017. And within two recruiting classes, we knew we had the right formula because within two recruiting classes we got our first bid to the NCAA tournament, at least since I've been the coach of the team. And so the the foundations for the program have been very step by step by step. It all starts with the program, with the culture, with my staff. It starts with the message and the leadership that I'm giving to them. It starts with how we're recruiting players and what type of players that we're identifying that can be successful in our program and at NYU. And now the next steps start to happen because we've been to three NCAA tournaments. And now so it becomes what are the next steps and the keys to making longer runs in the NCAA tournament? You need six games to get the championship trophy. And so far, you know, we've got knocked out in the first in the second round. Now we're starting to layer in some of the other ideas and concepts that we think can help the team succeed.

President Hamilton [00:10:09] For that, for that longer run. And I love that compete, respect and elevate and obviously respect, you know, your opponent, including your many others, but including your opponents. But elevate yourself and your colleagues on your own team, but presumably not your opponents. That is great. That's a great motto to follow. Now, you mentioned New York City and this amazing location. And there are so many temptations that New York City offers. And your team, the men's soccer team. Indeed, all of NYU's athletes are true scholar athletes who are focused as hard on their academics as they are on their athletics. How do you keep them focused with so many demands on their time, so many distractions?

Coach Wyant [00:11:04] I think the one word answer to that is that we hold them accountable. And we hold each other accountable and we ask that they hold themselves accountable. And that's pretty much like a one word answer that I can give you. But it's it's much more than that, as you know. You mention the academic part of this. Well, we have a team goal that we set every semester that the team GPA should be 3.5 or higher. And I'm happy to say that we rarely miss that mark. Yeah, rarely miss that mark. So it's not that simple, though. As you know, you can't just show up and come into this intense, competitive, very demanding student athlete experience and just expect to succeed. So we provide a lot of support for our student athletes. The university provides tremendous support, and we also pride ourselves, our program, in recruiting the right person, the right student athlete that can succeed at NYU. So we really spend a lot of time getting to know recruits maybe as early as their freshman year of high school, their sophomore year of high school. And so we're really evaluating, is this is this person the right fit for NYU? And then once we've determined that both from an academic standpoint and from a social standpoint and from an athletics standpoint, then if we recruit them into our program, we start to immerse them in our culture right away. Right away. Already, my incoming class that we've met with this fall, they already know about the program. They already have met other leaders on the team. They're already being introduced to our culture. And this is how we do things and this is what is expected. And these are the standards and we make that very clear. But we also provide them with a lot of support in order to succeed. So it's all about accountability and responsibility.

President Hamilton [00:13:19] Yeah, I want to point out to everyone listening, you know, the achievements in athletics and academics come. Yes, we're in this great city and there is much, much, much that we love about New York City. But one of the things that we perhaps don't often recognize, there are not lots of soccer pitches, soccer fields in Manhattan. No. Unlike a suburban environment or a rural environment. And so the players traveling distances to practice, let alone to play, to play games. And so this is achievements that come on top of even quite significant travel time to to do the things that other soccer teams do just by walking over to the nearby soccer fields.

Coach Wyant [00:14:10] Well, I appreciate your pointing that out, because it is it is a major obstacle that we always overcome. We never let it be an excuse for us. We always talk about how this makes our program different and it makes our program stronger and it makes our players stronger. And all of these logistical time management items that players have to deal with, it just makes them better human beings. It makes them so employable for for employment because they've they've had to juggle all this. They've had to deal with all of this. They've had to really be conscious of their time management, where they're going, how they're getting. Are they're leaving enough time. And so they're problem solving, I think is is I would say it's much better, but they just have an edge, I think. And they're such a great attraction to any employer, I think, because of their athletics at NYU.

President Hamilton [00:15:14] Now, Kim, I would like to focus on coaching style. And you've in this remarkable career that you've had, you've said that you actually don't think coaching men's and women's soccer teams is significantly different, that you apply the same standards, the same expectations, the same style of coaching, whether you are coaching a men's or women's team. And I want to just quote you. You said you've said in the past that "if I even tried to be someone I'm not by yelling more being louder, that wouldn't be me. And the players would see through that in a second. The players of different genders would see that through that in a second. The key to success in anything you do is to be authentic." And I want to just focus on that last sentence because it applies in so many spheres in all of our lives and our students lives far beyond the playing field and for students who are not athletes. So authenticity is a very, very important quality in the lives of all young adults as they explore themselves and their future. So help me understand what you mean when you say that the goal is to be authentic and how do you model it in yourself and your own behavior, and perhaps even more importantly, how do you develop it in your players? How do you encourage it in in those in the in the team?

Coach Wyant [00:16:55] Well, I mean, authenticity at its core is just being completely comfortable in your own skin and really not living in fear of what other people think about you. And I know I think I have children. I have a 14 and 16 year old. And I can approach this from two perspectives, you know, leading young people and also being a parent. And I think I know that the authenticity factor in today's society has got to be so challenging for young people, especially with the Internet, especially with social media and messages that they're getting on social media at younger and younger ages. And there's I feel like as a coach, there's this constant competition between me and the Internet, right? Because it's like, well, coach says we should play in a four, three, three. I mean, look it up on Google and see what this says. Right. So I'm competing with all of those millions and millions of opinions that are out there. And so the quote that you read, I remember being interviewed when I first took over the men's team at NYU, and I primarily worked with women. So there was obviously a lot of interest in coaching the different genders. And I did think to myself when I'm like, okay, I'm transitioning into coaching to the men's side, do I act any differently? Which I found really fascinating that I was actually asking myself that question. And luckily I said, Well, no, like I've been successful doing what I'm doing and I'm not going to change. I have my values, I have what's important to me and I'm going to stick to them. And that's also, I think a part of authenticity is knowing what my boundaries are, knowing what my values are, and then presenting those boundaries and those expectations and those standards and those values, presenting that to the group that I'm leading to my coaching staff. So I think it's authenticity is a lot about clear communication that you're having, whether it's with your staff or whether it's with the players. And authenticity also is... Is trying to get on a level with players that is, I guess, like more personal and not just about like a a coach player relationship, like X's and O's. So, you know, you had asked me like, how do I model this with my players? Well, I mean, I just ask them, like, hey, how's your day going? Like, we we talk about other stuff. Other than soccer, whether it's on a plane trip, whether it's on the bus, whether it's in the vans, you know, going to practice, whether we have a few minutes before or whether I just call them, like over the Christmas break. Hey, how's everything? How's your family? Authenticity, I think, is just, you know, wanting to know a little bit more about people than just what, in my case, what this athlete can deliver to to my program. I think authenticity, too, is how how I treat my staff. And one of the things that we talk about in our program, the values that are important to us, we say, first and foremost, your own health and well-being, that of you and your family. That is the highest priority, right? That's the highest priority. The second is your academics. The third is your football. The fourth is your, you know, whatever you want after that. But these are the order, the priority that we need you to have when you come and you play in our program. My assistant coach, Joe, he has two young children and he'll call me during season, which is very busy. Cam. My kids are home sick. My wife's working, whatever it is, I've got to take care of the kids. Joe No problem. You do that. We got you over here because we preach this family first. And so if I don't follow through, if I don't demonstrate that, then it's inauthentic. And the players can see through that.

President Hamilton [00:21:27] I love the way you you link wellness and you know comfort within oneself to other dimensions of life, sport to academics, to social interactions. And, you know, I think sport does play and exercise does play such an important role in wellness, not just physical, but also mental. And, you know, I, I played rugby until my mid-thirties and then switched to soccer and ended up playing until my late fifties on a geriatric soccer team. And I found not just was it important to stay fit and keep one's weight down with all the dinners one has as a university president. But also it was an important way of not only expressing oneself, but also you know getting out a bit of aggression, you know, getting out a bit of of internal tension on the soccer pitch or the rugby pitch. And so it's great to hear you extolling it in the same way. Now, I want to move on to your journey to to where you are today. And as a child, I know you excelled in a significant number of sports. You were often the only girl among boys playing those sports, and you were often in those groups of of all of all men except yourself. You were often the best athlete. And I was most intrigued to read that at a younger age, your favorite sports were BMX bikes and bike racing and baseball and often competing against boys in bike racing and baseball. How have you continued biking to you? Do you mountain bike now? Do you still BMX bike? How do you, how has.. Presumably baseball has transitioned to softball or some other, but how have you continued those passions?

Coach Wyant [00:23:39] Well, I always say that biking was my first love when it came to sport. When I was a little kid, I would be on my bike. It was just complete freedom, just being able to go where I wanted to go. I thought it was like the neatest thing in the world. And I love biking. I'm still very active when it comes to biking, but I got to be honest. Like I graduated to the E-bike. I mean, because it's just it's so easy to get around. I, I can literally jump on my bike from my house. I can get over to the train station within like 7 minutes. I can put my bike on the train and then I get it out in New York City and E-bike all around the city. So I it's always been my first love.

President Hamilton [00:24:25] Yeah. And Manhattan's not the greatest location for biking.

Coach Wyant [00:24:30] Very careful.

President Hamilton [00:24:30] Now. I again, I was in reading a profile of you know, I know that you and your family encountered some some resistance in in your younger years that some of the male administrators of sports attempted to ban you because of your gender. And. And you quoted your you made a comment about your mother. And, you know, all of us who have had a strong or have had strong mothers in our lives know how important they are. And your mother, Faith Wyant, you said "she threatened to sue them for all they were worth, when they tried to stop you from playing. My mom always fought hard." And what I wanted to ask you is where did that drive, Where did that commitment from your your mother come from? I think she was a single mother in Miami in an era before Title nine. And the determination to overcome old expectations and habits is an important an important trait. So where did she get it from?

Coach Wyant [00:25:48] You know, I talk to my mom all the time about, like this, this moment that you're describing where I'm just a young girl, right? Just wanting to play sport. And the local park team is organizing the baseball team. And I show up at, you know, whatever age I was eight, nine or ten say, well, I'm here to join the baseball team and to have a male organizer basically look down on me and said, Oh, no, you can't play. Girls are not allowed to play baseball. It is in the rulebooks. And that moment crushed me. And I got on my bicycle and I rode home and I walked through the front door and I was crying. And then my mom said, What's wrong? And I told her what happened. And she said, You get your stuff. And, man, we I was like, chasing after her to get into the car. And she tore out of the driveway and was back down at the park in 30 seconds. And she walked right up to that male organizer and she said, This is going to happen or else. And I'll never forget that. And I just where my mom got that, I mean, she was evolving during a time where women were demanding more in the sixties and seventies, women were were demanding more. And so she was part of that, demanding more and wanting more. She was also a good athlete when she was in high school, but she was only allowed to run track. That's all that they were allowed to do. So I suppose she was just not going to stand for any inequality. And I have a brother, he's older and I suppose my mom just felt like, well, whatever he can do, she should be able to do that as well. So I have a I have my mom to really thank for just basically standing up for me when I didn't know how to stand up for myself.

President Hamilton [00:27:40] While I was going to say she must have passed that determination onto you because it can't have been easy for you as as a member of a of a team that was otherwise all boys just holding your own in in that kind of a setting.

Coach Wyant [00:27:56] You know, I can look back on that and say that I really always just had a lot of confidence and it didn't really matter to me if I was being bullied or things were being said to me. Perhaps it was also because I was a really good athlete. Most of the time I was as good as the boys, and so I had that also to kind of hang on to, but I just didn't let anything deter me from doing what I wanted to do, what made me happy. And luckily I had a support system that also was helping me do that. And all I can say is I guess I was just born with it. You know, it's just this amount of confidence and just authenticity where it didn't bother me.

President Hamilton [00:28:45] And when being able to run rings around them must have helped as well. (laughs) I just you mentioned your mum growing up in a time where women were demanding more. And of course, one of the things that helped them, women achieve much more, particularly in athletics, was Title Nine. We have just celebrated the 50th anniversary of Title Nine, and of course that was a change in the expectations and the law around athletics, particularly in colleges, which granted women their equal opportunity to participate in sports. And I wanted to ask you how you think that's changed, not just women's sports, but athletics overall, and obviously change for the better, We we very much hope. And but what are the obstacles and challenges that you think still remain for women in sports, at the collegiate level and also at the at even higher levels of of accomplishment.

Coach Wyant [00:29:49] Well, I mean, Title Nine, I can't say with empirical evidence, but it changed. It had a profound impact on my life and my pathway. There's just no question about it. Mysteriously, when I went to high school and this was in the eighties, there was a girls soccer team added in my high school, and I don't know if that was to start to meet the requirements of Title Nine, but I think it was because the timing with the passage of the law in 72 into into when this happened, is like very suspicious. And then by the time I got to college, colleges started to have to comply with probably the issues of Title Nine and the law of Title Nine. And I always tell the story that, like when I was a young girl growing up, I was it was kind of still odd for a girl to be out playing with the boys. It was just not common that girls did this and, you know, whatever the term tomboy was presented to me a lot; I always kind of took it as a badge of honor. I thought maybe, well, maybe it means something bad. I don't know. But whatever I'm doing, what I love to do. And if you fast forward to 40 years now, it's the complete opposite. I have like I said, I have girls. They're 14 and 16 now. But it's it's almost as if now the girls aren't out competing and joining some team at four five and six years old. It's like, well, this is odd. Like you're supposed to have your girl out now doing all these sports that are available to them. So the change has just been dramatic in that respect. Major, major participation for women in all sports at all levels at colleges and universities. Now we're seeing women's professional leagues start to flourish in the U.S. and European countries. Women's basketball seems to also be stabilizing here in the states. Obviously, I think there's there's still a lot of work to be done. There needs to be more women in leadership roles, I'm assuming athletic directors, decision making capacities. And hopefully there also can be more women who are coaching in the men's arena, a predominantly male dominated arena, and no one is really thinking twice about it.

President Hamilton [00:32:34] Yeah. And it's great not to see the growing success of women's sports in the media and with the television access. And now the American women's team dominated for for so long. And it's actually very good now to see Sweden and France and Italy and Wales and countries that did not have the long tradition of women's sports now rising because the growing strength of women's sports, women's soccer, women's sports in other areas are growing and growing and growing. So now I do now as we as we come towards the end of the podcast, I do want to ask about this historic match against the University of Chicago, coach Julianne Sitch. And of course, you as the NYU men's coach, you are the first time two men's teams coached by women coaches Played against each other. And of course, it made national and even international media coverage. And I want to just to ask your reaction to that. There was a fabulous article in The New York Times about the historic match. I usually get mentioned in The New York Times for completely other less complimentary reasons. So it was great to see an NYU story that was positive, positive, positive. What did it mean to you to to not just be groundbreaking with Coach Sitch, but also to see the coverage that it got?

Coach Wyant [00:34:20] Well, it's it's it is actually very hard for me to put into words like the the actual event. And then I I've been involved in just so many incredible soccer games and events. And you can see over my shoulder here that jersey that's hung over there is the very first jersey that I wore for the very first United States women's national team game.

President Hamilton [00:34:51] As goalkeeper, as the first...

Coach Wyant [00:34:55] And I have to say that this match with the University of Chicago was it is definitely a top three moment for me in my entire career of what it meant. I was just so full of pride that night and I, I just think that it was so appropriate that this was happening at NYU. I mean, I just I couldn't believe, like, the timing of this. I'm like, wait, we're playing University of Chicago. We're playing them at home. NYU gets to host this. We were we were super fortunate, too, that the Yankees lost and weren't in the World Series because we would have been bumped off the Times, like in a heartbeat. So we had that happen as well. But I mean. I was very proud to see another woman be able to step in this role. Chicago is a tremendous program with a great track record. They were coming into this game as the number one team in the country. Since I've been coaching, I haven't been able to beat them and my family was there. My friends were there. There was this New York Times. There was just a little bit of a circus around the around the whole game. And I. I wanted to enjoy the moment. That's what I really wanted to do. I wanted to coach during the week, which is what I do. Hand the game to the players and say, okay, it's yours now, which is what we always do. And I really just wanted to sit back and relax and watch the game and enjoy the moment. Well, 25 minutes into the match, I had a player sent off and so now it was like in crisis mode, which is crisis mode. You know, we we prepare for this, but now it's like a totally different scenario happening. Game plan right out the window. Right. Because now you have to go to to plan B, which is playing with ten players. And so to have this setting where you're playing the number one team in the country on a beautiful night up at Gaelic Park, you have two females leading the teams. And to have this dramatic event happen, well, it just couldn't have been better and the the the players performed super well. They made me so proud that night because at the end of the night, Chicago couldn't beat us and we had chances to win the game also. So the night is just you couldn't have scripted it any better. It was just so dramatic and you could not have scripted any better. And from that moment on, it just my team just spun a little bit more in the direction that we needed to go. And we were off. Nobody. Nobody could catch us at that point. Except Williams In the first round (laughs).

President Hamilton [00:38:04] It a very special night, and to be one man down for a large chunk of the game makes that draw even more significant. And so for a last question, Kim and I, I wanted to expand the conversation a little. You are an elite athlete. You have been an elite athlete. You coach elite athletes in men in the NYU soccer teams. But of course, you know, and I'll include myself in this group very much. There are earnest and enthusiastic athletes who aren't blessed with the, you know, genetic talents of speed or ball control or hand-eye coordination, whatever a sport requires. What what do you say? How do you encourage and inspire, know those who who want to play, who want to be part of the joy, the camaraderie, the the satisfaction that the depth, the despair and also the joyous celebration that comes equally with with playing sports. And how do you encourage those who are less talented to stick with it and to to play, to find the right level, to play with, with in teams or with friends, whether they be pick up ball or more organized sports. How do you how do you offer hope to those who are less talented?

Coach Wyant [00:39:42] Well, I say it to my own kids all the time because they're both involved in in sport. And I you can have a lot of talent. You can absolutely have a lot of talent, but you're not working hard, Then somebody is going to outwork you because for as much talent as you might have, there will be always somebody who's more talented. And so it's it's all about the process and it's about hard work and just doing the steps step by step and putting in the time and putting in the effort. And it's something that we go through as coaches because when we coach a team and I have a team of 24 outfield players, not all of the players play.

President Hamilton [00:40:30] Yeah, of course.

Coach Wyant [00:40:31] Right. And so how how do I help those players who aren't playing as much as they want to? How do I help them find meaning in what they're doing? Right. And so athletics is sort of for me more about these other things that you're talking about. What is your role and how can you do your role that best? And you're just as important to the team, whether you're playing or whether you're not playing or whether you're playing 10 minutes a game versus 90 minutes a game. That's my job as a leader to help those who feel that they're coming up a little bit short in the goals that they want to attain to find relevance in and what they're doing.

President Hamilton [00:41:15] That is so important and such a general lesson that that actually know dealing with success is easy. Dealing with disappointment is is harder. I used when my daughter was in elementary school, I used to coach her soccer team, her Saturday morning soccer team, and I used to tell the parents that while winning was great, it was actually just as important to lose and be able to deal with losing because quite frankly, in life, the lessons learned from failure, the lessons learned from losing will actually be far more applicable than winning every match and being hugely successful on the sports field. And the lessons in life can be quite important. I will confess not every parent agreed with me that they wanted to win every game, but I think sport has that role for all of us, that it helps us deal with success. But even more importantly, it helps us deal with with failure and disappointment. And life will throw some failure and disappointment in all of our paths at some time or another.

Coach Wyant [00:42:34] I couldn't agree more. I've learned I've made some of the greatest strides in my life from having some major, major disappointments when it comes to sport. And it's hard at the moment. Right. And we're wallowing in this this disappointment. And it's agonizing at the moment. But when we go through it, And we come out, we hopefully realize, well, that was that was really great what I did, you know, kind of pat ourselves on the back and I'm I'm okay. And I can keep going. We can keep going.

President Hamilton [00:43:13] And that applies to know not getting the job you wanted in an interview process for our all of our students out there as they as they enter the the wider world. There are many points where disappointment will happen. And actually, looking back, it can sometimes be surprising how equally important those disappointing moments are to the to the successful ones. We we need to bring the conversation to a close. This has been wonderful and let me let me thank you, Kim Wyant, the wonderful and historic pathbreaking coach of NYU's men's soccer team. Thank you for for talking to us today and good luck. Good luck with the season and good luck with the recruiting session and good luck with next season as well. Kim, Thank you.

Coach Wyant [00:44:09] It's been such an honor to be able to speak with you, President Hamilton, And I also wish you the best of luck.

President Hamilton [00:44:16] Thank you, Kim, very much.

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